Swing trading with Butterflies

Discussion in 'Journals' started by Global OptionsTrades, Jul 30, 2021.

  1. qlai

    qlai

    Was position sizing discussed on this thread?

    @Global OptionsTrades, is this journal just a way for you to forward test, or are you actually trading your whole account this way increasing/decreasing exposure as opportunities present themselves?
     
    #261     Oct 7, 2022
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  2. taowave

    taowave

    I have him on IG,so I cant go back and look at his golden nugget posts,but it was obvious to what the returns were after looking at winners avg percent profit vs losers avg percent profit and Percent of winners...
     
    #262     Oct 7, 2022
    Global OptionsTrades likes this.
  3. I use Kelly for position sizing @qlai , reduced for the number of securities that I'm trading.

    Also, my account balance is spread across other securities / strategies.

    For illustrative purposes, for a USD100k account, I might allocate 25% to this. Kelly then suggests a VaR of say 50%, but as I might have positions on SPX, RUT, and Nasdaq at the same time in the same direction, I'll split that to give USD4167 premium for each.

    The comment that you quoted related to average P&L some time ago of 9.2% across 50 trades. n.b. average trade duration was 1 day.
     
    #263     Oct 7, 2022
    qlai likes this.
  4. Opened a couple of Calendars on Nasdaq and Russell 2000.

    Trade date: 10 October 2022
    Security: RUT
    Price at opening: 1695.9
    Direction: Put
    Expiry date (short side): 14 October 2022
    Implied Vol (short side) 45.0%
    Expiry date (long side): 17 October 2022
    Implied Vol (long side) 37.6%
    Strikes: 1690
    Opening Spread: 3.16

    Trade date: 10 October 2022
    Security: NQ
    Price at opening: 10930.9
    Direction: Put
    Expiry date (short side): 14 October 2022
    Implied Vol (short side) 45.1%
    Expiry date (long side): 17 October 2022
    Implied Vol (long side) 37.7%
    Strikes: 10930
    Opening Spread: 20.70

    Incidentally, my model is showing strong returns on these, but better returns from an OtM Calendar Call, which seems unusual, so something to consider.
     
    #264     Oct 11, 2022
  5. Adam777

    Adam777

    Like you I do a lot of 1-2 week flies (and other stuff), mainly looking at engulfing bars etc and targeting S/R. I entered 7/10/22 OTM SPY P FLY 350/360/370 OCT21 and it got to the short strike too quick ... 87% but I wanted more.... time to exit if it drops much further, plus CPI is coming up.

    You mentioned Donnichan Channels in another thread. Are you waiting for breakouts from the channel, or are you using the other side of the channel for targets? You reminded me I need to get more systematic in taking trades :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2022
    #265     Oct 11, 2022
  6. Although the thread title is Swing Trading, I use different approaches for my swing trades and the Calendars and Flies that I write about on here @Adam777 I probably need to clarify with a new thread or something as I can't change the thread title.

    You're right in that I use Donchian channels as a primary trigger for swings, but now use simple verticals to get that exposure - ironically to avoid the kind of frustration that you are experiencing; with being right on direction, but choosing an expiry that overshoots the anticipated move. nb I also used to use S/R before I learned that what I was using was similar to Donchian channels.

    I currently have 17/10/22 3640/3710 Call Credit spread on ES so will be pleased if your 360 SPY target comes in! I also have a 17/10/22 1685/1720 Put Debit Spread on RUT so am heavily invested in markets falling this week.

    The ideal scenario is to have the Calendars and/or Flies in place against a net long directional environment, with a loss on one offset by a profit on the other, but ideally enjoying profits on both during the intervening volatility!
     
    #266     Oct 11, 2022
    qlai, Adam777 and taowave like this.
  7. The Nasdaq Calendar put (#264) closed today at a good profit. RUT has been moving around so not sure how that one will go.

    Trade date: 10 October 2022
    Security: NQ
    Price at opening: 10930.9
    Direction: Put
    Expiry date (short side): 14 October 2022
    Implied Vol (short side) 45.1%
    Expiry date (long side): 17 October 2022
    Implied Vol (long side) 37.7%
    Strikes: 10930
    Opening Spread: 20.70
    Close date: 13 October 2022
    Trade duration: 3
    Closing spread: 40.13
    Profit / (Loss): 19.43
    Profit / (Loss): 93.8%

    @Adam777 with the fall in S&P500, the ES Credit Spread closed today at 69% profit on VaR. Hope you made something out of your fly.
     
    #267     Oct 13, 2022
    Adam777 likes this.
  8. Adam777

    Adam777

    I got out of my OTM put spy fly soon just after my post for 72%. I've only been doing OTM flys, OTM calendars/diags, div plays, and long vol strangles whenever vol is cheap enough.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2022
    #268     Oct 14, 2022
    Global OptionsTrades likes this.
  9. I brought closing orders in during the gyrations yesterday, and the other Calendar spread (#264) closed in profit.

    Trade date: 10 October 2022
    Security: RUT
    Price at opening: 1695.9
    Direction: Put
    Expiry date (short side): 14 October 2022
    Implied Vol (short side) 45.0%
    Expiry date (long side): 17 October 2022
    Implied Vol (long side) 37.6%
    Strikes: 1690
    Opening Spread: 3.16
    Close date: 14 October 2022
    Trade duration: 4
    Closing spread: 5.15
    Profit / (Loss): 1.99
    Profit / (Loss): 63.0%

    nb full disclosure; I closed the RUT vertical (#266) at a 57% loss - first loss in over a month.
     
    #269     Oct 15, 2022
    Adam777 and cesfx like this.
  10. Given the recent discussion about swing trading with verticals, I've put together a template and will report those trades here as well as the Butterflies and Calendar spreads.

    Opened these on Friday:

    Trade date: 14 October 2022
    Security: ES
    Price at opening: 3,672.0
    Structure: AtM/OtM Put Credit Spread
    Expiry date: 21 October 2022
    Strikes: 3610 / 3670
    Opening Spread: 22.00

    Trade date: 14 October 2022
    Security: RUT
    Price at opening: 1,738.0
    Structure: AtM/ItM Call Debit Spread
    Expiry date: 21 October 2022
    Strikes: 1705 / 1740
    Opening Spread: 20.20

    Also a position on Nasdaq, and closing orders filled overnight at a profit.

    Trade date: 14 October 2022
    Security: NQ
    Price at opening: 10,896.0
    Structure: OtM Put Credit Spread
    Expiry date: 19 October 2022
    Strikes: 10670 / 10760
    Opening Spread: 20.50
    Close date: 18 October 2022
    Trade duration: 4
    Closing spread: 4.50
    Profit / (Loss): 16.00
    Profit / (Loss): 23.0%
     
    #270     Oct 18, 2022