Can you expand on this? I'm just curious. For instance, theres a guy that trades a lot of VLO. Pretty sure thats Ryan Mckenzie, the guy in the top 30 traders under 30. He's also on the front cover of another issue of Trader daily. Either way, i thought his commish was around the .002-.003 range. The one day I saw him he did about 1 million shares of just VLO that day. I personally don't know the guy, i just saw him trading in an office for a few days. Now what I'm curious about is what kind of rate/benefit is at Swifttrade that would keep a "Ryan mckenzie like" trader at Swifttrade. I understand the whole low commish thing because I was once at HLV, and yeah, your rate is pretty absurd when you break it down to the kind of size you can do...have a low per ticket fill no matter what the size of your order is...4k for 2 bucks, 50k shares for 2 bucks, its all the same. But honestly, whats the breakdown here? In other words, why doesn't ryan mckenzie come knockin on swifttrades doors? You need a lot of bp to throw down 5k share orders of vlo...and if you flip 1 million of it a day, thats a lot of volume. Can you explain the benefits/reason why a succesful trader at swifttrade wouldn't just walk over to a different firm? I can't imagine its because of the commish...unless the rate at swift is something thats out of this world, i'd have to imagine if you're doing the volume, most props will accommodate or come damn close. And the bp issue, well, that too. I"m pretty sure you can get some ridiculous above industry standard leverage from a prop (maybe not certain places) if you have a track record to back it up. The only reason I can see someone staying there is if they don't want to be financially responsible for a blow-up, training, or they flat out just don't want to change a good thing. Can you give me some specifics here?
and the part about you don't make money, swift doesn't make money. HLV used to say the same thing. and in some respects of the training process, that was correct...particularly when you're beginning, starting out with 100 shares. But at another point/stage that is incorrect. Can you explain why you say that? (i'm not saying you're wrong. I'm mean, maybe theres something else going on here I don't know about. who knows?) Perhaps you can clarify.
Swift has been beaten to death on these forums but that won't stop me from throwing my 2 cents in. Swift is a great place for a beginning trader. Where else can you learn on someone else's dime and make hundreds and thousands of trades per week? Doing all these trades greatly speeds up your learning curve. Not to mention they dole out the BP like no one else. You're right they do supply 'stupidly low rates' however their fees are not exactly cheap. You are wrong about traders having 0 liability. I know of several traders who upon leaving on a slightly negative month had their cheques from the previous month garnished or withheld entirely. If the trader doesn't have a pot to piss in they let it go. If you have money coming to you they take what you 'owe'. Not saying this is right or wrong but to say a trader has zero liability is wrong. Saying if the trader doesn't make money Swift doesn't make money is true for the most part accept with traders who dont make much. For a trader grossing about 4k a month (and there are a ton of these guys). Swift makes way more off these guys than the trader makes, just run the numbers and you'll see. It's not nearly as bad as it would be at other firms but it's still bad. In closing, Swift is a fantastic place to get your start. Once you can make approx 8k+ a month consistently you'd be nuts to work for 35 or even 40%. Unless sadly you needed Swift more than they needed you.
I can't belive anybody would actually admit to working for swift trade ^_^ just for the hell of it once I went to one of their recruiting seminars at the University campus - riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, I can work from 1-3pm each day, and spend the rest of the day playing Quake or surfing the internet all the while taking home 20k+/month. Riiiiiiiiight, hehe
I've tried to also get specifics from a few different swiftraders on elite trader. Everyones scared to share what their "approximate" commission rates and fees are etc,, which makes me wonder. I doubt anyone will answer your questions unless your going to sign something with swift.
ok...this is the second time you have argued with me over the 0 liability thing......and i bit my tongue the first time.....but when you say something stupid twice i have to say something....... According to your theory you beleive 0 liability means if a trader loses money one month they shouldnt have to pay it back next month if they wish to continue trading......so lets see....if i lose 5k one month.....but make 5 k the next month....swifttrade should take the whole 5k loss the first month but still pay me my percentage of my earnings the next month?? Obviously if you want to keep trading, any losses you incurr one month have to be covered before you start getting paid.......however......if in one month there was some major catastrophe and you were on the wrong side of the market and you managed to lose 20k.....you have two choices....keep trading to earn that money back so once its paid back you can earm money for yourself....or walk away......hence...you have 0 liability. And as for your other idea about traders who gross 4k in a month and swifttrade makes soooo much more than the trader......lets see.....last time i checked....35% of any amount is still......yup....yup....its still 35%. so tellin me that swift gets a bigger cut from traders makin 4k than traders makin 10k makes no sense. k...now about swift not makin any money if a trader doesnt make money.......if a trader makes $0 in a month.....the only money swift makes is 16.8 cents per trade.......so if a traders makes 100 trades a day for 20 trading days in a month swift would make a wopping 350 bucks or so......where at most prop firms the trader would still owe the firm 2-4k in fees....right cause this is how most prop firms make their money.....their money comes from the traders actually trading....not by their profit....swift makes their money off the traders profit.....see the difference.......Swift gets their money from a percentage of a traders gross profit at the end of the month....most every other prop firm gets their money from charging traders for each trade and each share they trade.....big difference which calls for a big difference in payout %. Does that clear anything up?????????? But back to the other question of why people stay at Swift.....well only each individual trader can answer that.....but really.....you all have to be intelligent enough to realize that the top guys at swift.....the ones grossing 150k a month....have probably run the numbers 10 zillion times and have all some to the same conclusion.....Swift gives them the best deal for the way they trade....if not...then obviously they would just walk across the street to a different firm that pays them 90% of their profit......the only ones who ever leave swift are the ones who couldnt cut it there or the ones who;s trading styles were better suited to a different fee structure. So is swift better than any other prop firm.....depends on how you trade and your situation....... but anybody who just up and blurts out that any successful trader at swift should just get up and leave and walk across the street for a better payout %.....obvioulsy has no idea what they are talkin about and are just spurting their "opinion"......and lets face it....do any of us really care about someone elses opinion on ET??
It's things like that make the name bad. A lot of new trainee come in without actually knowing what's the deal or the real problem is. I have to say there is something wrong with the way Swift advertises to recruit people (including having campus offices) too, but lots of people will judge Swift base on their perception and the feedback from people walk out as a trainee. Can someone with the experience at Swift and other prop. shop, either Canada or America, state the difference in training at Swift from other prop. shop? I don't think the training at Swift helps at all, but I don't know what type and depth of training the other prop. shops provide as well. Do other prop. shops just let you trade as long as you are willing to put down the money?