Sweden

Why he's on ignore, no logic or sense.

What reason could there be for the nicely falling deaths, which match NYC and the UK and London and Spain and Italy, ohhh yeah the antibody tests are useless and we've all got the thing and that's it it's pretty much over.

No 2nd spikes after lockdown where they've had it anywhere.

2nd Spikes on all places locked down, vaguely had it as expected.


Little made up 1 in the UK Leicester 40 per day testing positive they did Peir 2 tests 1000's of them, which pushed the number up 80 so a 100% increase but many times more testing and 2 week extra lockdown over +40 tests. Crazy levels of fear!!

here Spains got a 200K population area locked down, do you think they realise, but the time you've spotted the increase lag 14days, it's already spread and it's too late ??

 

All the info posted by myself and others have been strictly from either Sweden itself or websites that follow the Scandinavian countries very closely in their healthcare, political or economic statistical analysis.

In fact, I make sure I post the links from the source the information came from.

Nothing is created by myself nor misleading.

By the way, the Prime Minister of Sweden will soon release his findings about the problem including giving a live news coverage about his findings.

If I could find a link to that...I would post that too but I'm willing to just post a link to a story covered by news media of that news conference. Something tells me you guys will not be posting about what was said by the Prime Minister of Sweden.

Turvyed ignores nobody that he knows is correct...he just doesn't respond and when he does respond...typically he uses profanity, name calling, personal attacks and denial. Moderator then deletes his message posts. Turvyed then states that the person is on ignore (again).

Keep the smiles on their face while their elderly and ethnic minorities are dying.

Now go research the above quote to find out which MP from Sweden stated that about their own healthcare policy. At least the Swedes are able to admit their healthcare policy may be wrong. and admit their economy is shrinking in comparison to prior quarters..

What's your excuse ?

Oh wait...you're now trying to deflect it to other countries in a thread the OP started about Sweden but not able to post any statistics to counter the statistics posted by others (including myself). I told you guys...too many fact checkers at this forum...some will get tired of seeing the misinformation / disinformation and call you out.

Nice try

P.S. Wouldn't it be much easier to start another thread about the U.K. considering its not even a Scandinavian country and some of you guys are from the U.K. ???

By the way, the OP has posted very little in this thread after starting it. Others are carrying the thread but not the way he wants it...with truth.

wrbtrader

 

Yes, that sucks, also some whole buidings have been quarantined, I don t know many people here yet know of 2 unrelated families already in Madrid who had to go through 2 weeks quarantine after it was lifted to the general population. How many stay at home orders we re gonna have to live through for that not even scary virus ?

Life in Madrid is much better than 2 months ago but still only a disturbing shadow of what it was before the national lockdown. Many still seem to be afraid to go out like before and many (including myself) find the anti covid measures a hassle making it not worth going out (where they are respected).
Many businesses haven t reopened either, coz they are already bankrupt or can t open profitably under the new restrictions ( discos can reopen but dance floors are to stay closed, people have wear a mask and respect social distancing inside and give their contact details upon entering, so they could be rounded up and quarantined in case some patron later came up with this O so terrible disease). The gym I train fighting sports at reopened without much restrictions ( hard to social distance while doing MMA and BJJ ) but it has only a tiny fraction of the students it had before.

 

Going through Same irrational hell here, not risked a pub that opened yesterday, the entire hand details get a call and 14days stuck in or a £1000 fine, no thanks for something I've already had but can't prove.

6weeks, I bet lockdown has been 30% efficient over there, has been here for the 6weeks aswell and no rise in numbers, really think they'd realise, ohhh all had it, it's over calm down back to normal wouldn't you

Loads here bankrupt, big client of mine ( work done, just support occasionally ) went 400 lost there jobs, loads of pubs not re opening and other businesses.

Gyms still 2 - 4 weeks before allowed to open, my 1 gym with the pool looks to of closed, find out soon I guess

How long do you think they'll spin the FEAR and it'll come back and kill you all for ?? Didn't expect this level of stupidity so thinking they'll get another 12months of social distancing out of it, get there value for money.

More and More people here the same as me, hang on, nobody seems to of died, it's not a big deal, just get back to normal from next to nobody, which is progress.

 

It looks like it will last a while indeed, at least in the UK and Spain. Here new normal rules enforcement is patchy but quite obvious in places open to a larger public and new quarantines popping up -a smaller city was just locked in Spain, after Lerida earlier this week- show some provincial authorities are still keen on reverting to lockdowns.
Madrid government was fighting with the central government to be allowed to open up while it wasn't allowed to go as fast as other provinces, but once Madrid got the green light, the local government introduced extra restrictions. Much depends on provincial governments now that the State of Emergency was lifted.
It looks like summer gonna be boring, we might not travel as staying in hotels implementing social distancing doesn't look too much fun. Let's see how the schools restart, and for how long... At least I might end up the coronavirus saga a better fighter than I started it, training pretty hard atm as I did during the whole lockdown...

 

Yep, want to get there moneys worth making running my business near impossible, got 1 fully functioning client, rest are hard to see, mostly working from home and I guess not really doing much.

Hopefully have next weekend if the weather is okay ( not too hot ) on the Mountains in Wales, sleep on the mountain / in the car, first time of the year, damn I'm WEAK though, need gym and weights first or I'm going to go splat LOL

1 Day mountains, sleep in car, nudist beach if it's a hot day maybe

 

Was getting to be a better MTBer but got bored riding 4 days per week and very tired!!

Gym 2 - 4 weeks maybe, find out tomorrow what the plan is, that'll hurt the next day or 3 LOL

 

Sorry, where did you get that from? Herd immunity, conceptually, means that people that were exposed and are now immune can't contribute to transmission, as chains of infections are likely to get disrupted. As such, it only really depends on the fraction of the immune to the total population. You can arrive to that point either via vaccination (as we do for most childhood diseases, for example) or via natural exposure and subsequent recovery.

If we assume that we are achieving herd immunity via natural exposure, achieving it becomes a function of R0 combined with some rate of social interaction. Social distancing obviously reduces the transmission rates and delays herd immunity. For example, antibody tests from the NYC show it to be at 25% exposed population, while herd immunity requires somewhere around 60%. If the NYC did not impose a lockdown, we probably be at the herd immunity threshold already.

Roughly the same number of people will get infected with or without it (albeit slower) before the herd immunity is achieved. What lockdown and other social distancing measures do/did is slow the transmission enough to prevent the medical system from being overwhelmed. If you somehow can be sure of your medical resources, the approach taken by Sweden is pretty reasonable as it will bring them to herd immunity much faster.

 

Correct and Correct finally!!

Antibody tests can't be trusted sadly, takes 20days after symptoms to get them then they don't last for long and some don't seem to have them anyway so ??? ( might come around again, but we'll see )

NYC Lockdowns removed I believe ?? no spike unlike Florida so got to assume it's high on the numbers enough to slow it down, 25% wouldn't be enough. London the same got hit before rest of UK and Tubes to spread fast just like NYC's underground.

Sweden, deaths decreasing but positive tests increasing, maybe more test? maybe better treatment? data changed recently and days of no data, something fishy or over ??

UK very few cases, wards all closed 6weeks ago pretty much, stat's department 1 month ago so not much data. Most areas reporting no new hospital cases in over 7days recently, not many following the vague lockdown these days.

Not seen anywhere nearing the 0.1% fatality per population rate have a 2nd wave yet, so all looking promising

 

Currently, there's no natural immunity, anywhere to Covid-19, although there could be.

Sweden's own health officials stated we should have a vaccine within the next 1 - 2 years. Canada's health officials stated the exact same thing. WHO stated the exact same thing. United States health officials stated the exact same thing and France health officials stated the exact same thing.

Ok...now that 1 - 2 years was establish by people that know more about this than me.

Governments then put a rush on the development & research...to hopefully speed up the process of discovering a vaccine. They did the exact same thing with the HIV Pandemic. They panic, labs rush to the door...wild wild west show.

Still no vaccine for the HIV Pandemic but they're working on it. Now back to Covid-19 and Sweden...Dr. Fauci back in early April stated we could (not will) have a vaccine by spring or summer of next year 2021. That's in the realm of what everybody else is saying 1 - 2 years.

Typically, it takes 2 - 5 years to go through the discovery and research phase alone by itself. That's not including the clinical phase to ensure that the vaccine is safe.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/

The above link has a graph (image posted further below) but its the only public one I can find. I have another graph more specific about Covid-19 involving the current research labs doing a rush...it shows 1 - 2 years for the discovery, research and clinical phase. That's an enormous rush.

Then again, famous celebrities have stated they will volunteer to take the vaccine in the first clinical trials if it can rush it to vaccination of the public.

Another thread here at ET talks about such including using Prisoners whereas I stated many Universities that get big money from Pharmaceutical companies...those Universities pay their students big money to do clinical trials.

In the old days, they used the Military for clinical trials. My point, they have a large pool of Canaries for the clinical trials.

Anyways, that's were I got my typical 2 years but only if its rush. I strongly doubt any time less then 2 years will be possible. Yet, there's a rumour that China has developed a vaccine and currently in clinical trials...

• Won't hold my breath about such...its China.

By the way, not sure about the 60% stats for herd immunity in NYC as you stated.

• What's your source for 60% for herd immunity in NYC ?

Yet, Sweden's health officials stated 70 -80% is needed for herd immunity in Sweden but are very disappointed with the current antibodies level of only about 7% when they were expecting it to be much higher by July.

Personally, I don't trust testing for antibodies after natural exposure. Too much science that shows its most likely short-term or a weak response to a re-infection. In contrast, a gene response by a newborn is something I do believe in (more about that below).

Here's an interesting comparison about vaccines via the Measles.

Measles first case was like 1657 in Boston or somewhere in Massachusetts. Research wasn't started until the early 1800's after using so-called treatments that failed miserably. Yet, promising research started around 1875 about the time it hit the Indigenous communities.

It was so promising and they saw the killer impact it had on the Indigenous population...they slowed down the research to allow it to devastate the Native Americans. Cruel true story.

Early 1900s, Smallpox Pandemic hit...they now put a rush on the research again only because it was killing people with more rights than the Indigenous and their children.

With the best scientist...they came up with a vaccine for clinical trials in 1958. That's right...1958. It wasn't until early 1970's when they declared they had an approved vaccine (that means it doesn't kill people).

By early 1980's the Measles is almost eliminated from humans. Unfortunately, anti-vaccine groups gain ground all over the world after several well documented cases of children dying or becoming seriously ill after their vaccination shot for the Measles.

Since then, there's a huge part of the population that do not trust vaccines and we have a lot of ET members here stating they don't trust vaccines and prefer others to go before them as the Canary in the Coal Mine.

Measles is on the rise again but only because of the low vaccinations around the world and people travelling from country to country much easier now...spreading it much easier.

With all that said, 2 years is a good guess even with a rush to a vaccine although the statistics show most likely not...more like 10 years if we're lucky. Can Sweden and the world develop a vaccine for herd immunity in 70 - 80% of the population ?

• I strongly doubt such especially without a vaccine unless you're willing to achieve herd immunity after killing off millions of the population...similar to the plague eventual immunity. Seriously, nobody is going to try to kill off a large percentage of its population to achieve herd immunity via natural exposure. They prefer the vaccine route to speed up the process.

They say it was natural selection (better genes) and better diets that saved those remaining in the infected area of Europe...it allowed eventual herd immunity. I won't mention how long that took...discouraging time duration. Yet, it still killed 75 million - 200 million Europeans.

In college, there's many medical journals about the Plague in comparison to modern diseases. Diseases that take many many years to write itself into the genes / genomes of the next generation. At birth...we're born immune to many diseases including to the Plague.

By the way, I don't like mentioning the history of the Plague with a discussion about Covid-19 but I'm mentioning it because I think our descendent...children of women with antibodies for Covid-19...these children will be born immune to Covid-19 just like it had happen with the Plague. Yet, we won't know until next year if such is true or not.

Tests in the genome of the descendants of the Plague show those descendants having the genes to fight the Plague successfully...at birth.

Here's another interesting statistic variable...about 20 - 25% of Sweden's population are anti-vaccine. They don't believe in it. Sweden needs to fix that if they want herd immunity to develop after a vaccine has been found. Only way they can do that is to take away their citizens rights and force vaccination on their fellow Swedes...

It will never happen.

Maybe better education about the importance of vaccine will work ?

wrbtrader