Survival of the fittest, or combined utopia?

Discussion in 'Economics' started by nitro, Apr 25, 2010.

Would a utopian world destroy itself, or be happy?

  1. Yes. It should be the ultimate goal of all human society and we are well on our way.

    8 vote(s)
  2. No. We need slaves and worker bees and queen bees.

    14 vote(s)
  3. I don't know, but nitro needs to get a life.

    24 vote(s)
  4. I don't care.

    5 vote(s)
  1. nitro


    I don't know why people don't take a quantum leap in their thinking and just jump to what must be the ultimate question of all economics:

    What if everyone was wealthy and did not need to work to produce crap to sell to each other because the basic needs were essentially zero cost (shelter food water transportation energy insurance medicine entertainment) ?

    Would this society annihilate each other out of pure boredom? Or, would we live in a Star Trek utopia?

    Why do we have to take these snail like pace to achieve what everyone knows is the answer? If Capitalism is the answer, then what is the question?
  2. nitro


    Break down your paycheck. Let's say you make $50k (adjusted for inflation) a year over the course of your life. Ok:

    After taxes, that is more like $35k.

    Here are your bills.

    1) Rent, $1000 a month.
    2) Electricity, $75 a month.
    3) Car insurance, $100 a month.
    4) Fuel costs and total transportation costs, $200 a month.
    5) Water bill, $15 a month.
    6) Car lease or finance costs, $220 a month.
    7) Entertainment costs, $100 a month.
    8) Incidental repairs, $50 a month.
    9) Cable, $75 a month.
    9) Miscellaneous purchases (books, computer, tv, etc) $50 a month
    10) Repay education, $200 a month for a few years.
    11) Cell phone, $50 a month.
    12) Groceries, $200 a month

    This comes to about $27,000 a year. So that leaves $8,000 a year that you can invest, save or whatever. So if you don't have kids, and you save every nickel and dime for say fifty years of working and no bad health isssues happens to you, at the end you have $400,000 saved to retire on. Then you die.

  3. If you assembled the ten wealthiest people (or 100 for that matter, pick a number). Pooled all their wealth and divided it equally among them, would they all be happy?

    I tend to think emotions gets in the way. People lead emotional lives not intellectual lives.
  4. It's not the "ultimate question" anywhere but sophomore philosophy classes.

    We don't live in a universe without constraints, therefore, by definition, it will never be possible for everyone to be wealthy, as "wealth" will always remain a relative, not an absolute, distinction.
  5. Re your second post, I think you might have success if you were married. You'd have a chance to upgrade a few things yet still save a good amount.

    In the end though I think we are all conditioned to "upgrade". Investing and savings lose out.

    My theory on your 8k saving idea might be a forced method. Year 1 borrow 8k from a credit card, buy an annuitized annuity (so you can never touch the money, neither can anyone else) and shoot for an income stream 20 years down the road. Pay off the CC, then repeat the process.

    Problem is we lose the chunks of money along the way, living the conventional life.
  6. We'd suffer from Dutch disease.
  7. What the hell Nitro, what era and where does this imaginary guy live?
    75 bucks for electric bill...double that.
    200 bucks for fuel and transportation...on what, a Moped?
    15 bucks for water shower once a month?
    220 bucks for car lease or payment...nigga' please.
    100 bucks for entertainment...sounds like your dead already.
    :eek: :D
  8. nitro



    Well, I am assuming you aren't running a bunch of servers out of your house :D

    I get by on $50/M. I guess if you live in LA where everything is ten miles away it could be much worse. On the other hand, if I am in NYC, I walk everywhere. Chicago is somewhere in between.

    Water is cheap in Chicago. It is funny, but of all the commodities in the world, it is by far the most important. Thank gawd capitalists haven't gotten around to charging for it yet.

    All the other elements are fused in the centers of stars and then ejected into space in supernovae. Even if we mined every planet in the solar system, the elements like Gold, Silver, Lithium, Aluminum, Platinum, Iron, etc etc etc will eventually run out. :( BTW, by logic and the laws of Physics, Iron and therefore steel should be the most expensive commodity in the Universe.

    People always tell you that it would cost $25B to go to Mars. Well, the mining of Mars would probably produce 100 quadrillion dollars in commodities. It is the ultimate treasure hunt.

    That is not nice, and there is no need for it.

    Well, it is an average. I agree it is a poultry amount. A date with a woman will easily cost $200 for dinner, movie, play, concert, game etc. But some weekends I just collapse and don't get up from the couch even to go to sleep I am so tired.
  9. nitro


    Sorry, this is inaccurate. It is closer to $100/M.
  10. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This can not be real because someone always have to work, true?
    Who will build the house? Plant the farm? Make the clothes? Build the car? Take the oil from the earth for fuel?...............
    So someone have to do that. So if everyone is rich with paper money, who care for this paper money if no one want to work?
    #10     Apr 26, 2010