Suretrader

their are a few us firms that offer traders the ability to trade in a offshore account as to bypass any regulatory rules

You can trade here in the us with their overseas entity

they usually solicit to us traders to open a prop account with your typical prop deals like everyone else business as usual for them . the good ol days before big brother intefered in our lives

Not the usual suspects mentioned on this site by the way
you take a bigger risk with losing your money if things go south

 

I'm not sure what other firms you're referring to, as Nevis and Broad Street International have been mentioned on other threads, neither of which accept U.S. clients.

Yes, you're right about anyone being able to set up an LLC (or IBC- international business corporation) as a "workaround" if you're a US citizen.

Element Trading (offshore in Panama) accepted anyone, but it's been posted all over these boards to stay away from this firm.

Regarding Sykes, I'm not aware of his situation, however my guess is he could be a dual citizen or he set up an offshore LLC, and then solicits traders who then trade under his LLC.

A trader who is a U.S. citizen is probably better served by just getting properly licensed, and then joining a domestically registered firm.

 

OK, this is not my area of expertise and I have no relationship with this broker. I just started this thread out of curiosity. But I'm going to paste exactly what Tim said about these guys. He says nothing about being a dual citizen. I hate giving Tim any attention but here are his comments:

UPDATE: It takes 4-5 days to open a SureTrader account right now because of all the demand due to them giving people special free features when you mention my name and because they’ve had shares to short on pumps like RAYS/BVSN. (See how my students and I just made $50,000+ in a week shorting RAYS thanks to this great new broker).

So please be patient and if you email me asking questions about this new broker, I’m gonna come to your house and smack you, email all questions to support@SureTrader.com and have patience there too because they are SLAMMED right now, I’m just a proud customer and affiliate, I will NEVER answer questions relating to taxes, compliance, the PDT rule, leverage…all that fun stuff…this is the opportunity of a lifetime, don’t you dare mess it up or ignore it.

As I announced the other day, I have a new favorite broker, which I’ve been testing out the past few weeks and with whose CEO I was meeting with down in the Caribbean over New Year’s…when you open an account and use my name as the referral, I got them to offer you some cool features for free, something nobody else can claim

This is a Bahamas-based company that clears through US-based clearing firms and this setup opens the doors to some VERY appealing features as their CEO was kind enough to chat about on Friday’s LiveStock on demand.

1. SureTrader‘s best feature is that their clients are not subject to the Pattern Day Trader Rule. (This is an SEC rule that disallows people with under $25,000 from executing more than 3 day trades in any 5-day rolling period…aimed at protecting new traders/investors from blowing up, it unfortunately also SEVERELY impairs the growth potential for small accounts)…trade as much as you want (within reason)!

2. I have opened a $50,000 account with SureTrader, but their minimum is just $2,000. This is HUGE for those of you with small accounts. Previously they only cleared through Penson – like their CEO’s sister company SpeedTrader & my favorite onshore broker Thinkorswim – but thanks to my haggling and the tremendous demand for shorts on hard-to-borrow stocks, they also now clear through my special broker whose minimum is $40,000 and 500,000 shares trader per month…so in essence SureTrader is a FAR less expensive way to get the same borrows that only my special broker previously had access to…all you need is $2k now instead of $40k.

3. CEO Guy Gentile (referred to as GG in this past LiveStock episode posted above) built his other company SpeedTrader from nothing into a $20 million/year business in just a few years – verified by being on the Inc. 500, which rigorously examines and verifies company financials – so he’s willing to have SureTrader’s trades clear through several sources – basically wherever we find shares available to short – in order to make sure SureTrader is THE all-in-one broker for short sellers…he just wants commissions so he needs to find the shares to short in order to get his precious commissions…I look forward to SureTrader clearing through more firms to get even more borrows for us!

4. Speaking of commissions, it’s just $4.95/trade for up to 1,000 shares, making it one of the cheapest firms out there and while there will be premiums paid to short sell hard-to-borrow stocks, as we’ve learned too many times in the past even if you have to pay 1 or 2 cents/share shorting pump and dumps.

5. Also because they are offshore, take away that pesky US rule where when you short any stock under $2.50/share – whether its 10 cents/share or $1/share – you have to put up $2.50/share to cover the trade ie if you want to short 50,000 shares of a 10 cent/share stock, while it should only cost you $5,000 (50,000 x .10), in the US you need $125,000 (50,000 x $2.50)…this has limited me BIGTIME when shorting stocks like PEIX, WLOC and RAYS…they will knock that $2.50 rule down to $2/share, which is HUGE for shorting large amounts of low priced blatant pump and dumps like POTG, MILV, ABOT, NSRS, SPAH…all of which crash 99%+ time and again. For larger traders, I wouldn’t be surprised if you could negotiate personally with Guy to get him down to $1.50/share or even $1/share as opposed to all the suckers in the US stuck forever putting up $2.50/share!

BONUS: I don’t use or recommend using leverage, but I know some of you like it and employ it to grow your profits even faster so far be it from me to stand in your way, this firm offers 6 to 1 leverage and soon they’ll have a plan for 20-1 leverage so have fun, but remember with great power comes great responsibility.

Is having an offshore broker right for you?

I have no idea if it’s right for you, consult your accountant and lawyer…it’s DEFINITELY right for me and a ton of people looking to escape the PDT rule, get great borrows on shorts and all the cool benefits detailed above.

2. Will SureTrader always have shorts on hard-to-borrow stocks?

Not at all, sometimes there are NO shares whatsoever to short – like when the pump and dump AMWI dropped from $1.40 to .30 in 2 hours (what a waste!) – but these guys will have the best inventory around for reasons stated above…if you are a short seller of penny stocks, you’re an idiot not to use SureTrader, even if only for a small piece of your portfolio, and not use their unique features to enjoy greater profits.

3. Are there monthly fees?

Yes, but they’re minimal depending on what software option you choose…nothing more than $200/month and more to the tune of $50/month…there’s definitely a free option too, but it’s all new so ask their customer support and remember to mention my name so you get 30 free trades (pays for a few months’ worth of fees for freeeeee)

Will I personally move all my assets over to SureTrader eventually?

No, even though this broker is amazing and should forever revolutionize short selling penny stocks, it’s still offshore so it’s inherently riskier than having $ in the US…this will be a small part of my portfolio (currently under 10%) and it will likely grow to be a bigger piece of my portfolio, but never account for all my assets. While I have no idea who 99% of my readers are, I suspect this same type of conservatism will serve them well; for now SureTrader is simply a new and better way to short sell and trade penny stocks so I’m extremely proud to introduce them to you.

6. Why are they taking days to get back to me, can you help Tim?

I cannot help and it’s actually my fault – ever since I unveiled this broker’s many benefits, they’ve been overwhelmed with new accounts from people looking to escape the PDT rule and actually get good borrows with just account sizes of $2,000-$10,000. Give them time and be grateful for their existence in the first place

 

It doesn't just say 'does not solicit US residents'. It says right before that:

"Swiss America Securities, Ltd (SureTrader)'s brokerage services are not intended for U.S. citizens, U.S. residents or U.S. corporations."

No free lunch, no magic. Do it at your peril. Even actual Swiss banks (not Bahamas based broker dealers which strangely added 'Swiss' to their name) and Swiss bankers have warrants out for their arrest, as do offshore gambling company executives who get pinched when their planes land in the states.

And I don't know where Sykes lives or the first thing about him, but I'm not sure why he went to the Bahamas to meet the guy 'over new years'. It says the on the website the 'leadership team' owns 2 US broker dealers and a tech company, so I'm sure he's around. (Maybe he just wanted to go the Bahamas? Could make sense, but sure wasn't a necessity or 'official' as he makes it seem it.)

All I am pretty sure of is if you are in the US, trading the US markets, you are subject to US Securities laws and regulations.

 

guys, soliciting is not the same as accepting. As the laws stand, foreign broker-dealers may accept US customers who contact them but they may not solicit or advertise to those customers to initiate contact.

The owners are not going to jail anytime soon lol. As long as the corporation is owned by a foreign resident, there is no way possible to regulate that business activity. You invest with firms that are off-shore at your own risk.

my 2 cents is that you will soon see the majority of brokers start to move overseas to keep their expenses down. There's 0 the regulators or me and you can do about it. Blame the regulators for doing a terrible job and punishing the good firms to protect their big banking interests. It's actually pretty pathetic that we've let it get this far.

 

That's what I thought. Thanks Evo.

 

safety of funds is all that matters . why traders go with a us based firm to begin with

who wants or needs all the regulatory hassle but traders have limited choices for access to leverage

for any overseas firm that offers a competitive deal & your money is safe will prosper

this can be the start of a new trend with overseas props . another choice for traders to consider

What prop firm overseas is a safe choice to use ? the 64k question

the prop industry will always adapt in creating a new model to attract traders like it has done in the past

the issue is trust in who you choose to do business with no matter where they are located

 

Over in Forex...just simply publishing a USA phone number on their website (prefix) is enough to consider solictation violations.

Look at the InstaForex case for reference...

ES

 

a few prop firms will give you a choice to trade with their registered cbsx b/d or they you can open a account in their offshore entity. all part of the same conversation. your choose which one

so that is soliciting when you live in the usa . rules are broken all the time

any overseas entity the exchanges or sec have no concern or authority over

 

Jurisdiction or not, the cftc does try to enforce their rules in an extraterritorial fashion - if they have a mind to do so. They got a number of offshore fx dealers to settle with them (for accepting u.s. clients). There is an article on Robert Green's website somewhere on how that exactly works. Enforcement should be even easier for them in this case, since the execution venue is onshore.