sigh, since i haven't left yet... Anything beyond the bounds of the universe is beyond the bounds of knowledge itself. Incomplete assumption. This is only true of what STAYS beyond the boundaries of the universe. God is able to enter the closed system at will and make His presence and nature known. This is precisely why some can know Him. Reason, not faith, is the operational first priciple. This is semantics. Faith in reason is the operational first principle. Anything you believe 'just because' is based on faith. You do not have to have a definition of faith to practice faith. If you cannot fathom a world without god (as your previous posts suggest), if you cannot bear the possibility of life "having no meaning without god" that is your own pyschological problem. Do not pretend the rest of the world shares your forlorn predicament. I don't pretend anything. I am not the one who walked in here with insults blazing. You could have started with the semi-civil tone of your last post, instead of ending with it. And I'm not interested in what I can 'fathom', I'm interested in what is real. If my certainty offends you, that's not my problem- until you start hurling unnecessary insults. You seem to be a man who does not doubt what he knows to be true. In that we are the same. Why don't we agree to disagree and go our separate ways.
Good point rs7. I should clarify that I have little interest in debating to win as opposed to arguing for the sake of truth- the idea of taking a position just for the sake of competition is not appealing to me. Winning and seeking truth are two separate goals. I go back and forth on whether this thread is a waste of time. Part of me says yes leave it alone, the other part says no stand up for what is true. I wish they would close this thread and be done with it.
Get off your high horse Darkhorse, you have no monopoly on the truth! What you call the "truth" is an ubstantiated claim that you derived from other men. Unless you or your contemporaries can prove that at some point there existed direct communication with god, simply state: "right or wrong, this is what I believe" and be done. I cannot and will not concede that you stand up for what is "true". My concession is this: we have both offered evidence for what we believe, we have resolved little except a clearer definition of our positions, neither of us has conclusively proven the other wrong. Let those who read this reach their own conclusions. At this point I would be happy to agree to disagree with you. PS - you're in Nevada right? If I haven't irrevocably offended you, get in touch if you're ever in Vegas - be a blast to share a beer with ya!
that's the thing though: I'm not on a high horse I know what I believe is true, so I share it. I also know plenty of folks will disagree, which is fine. My desire to share doesn't mean I'm pompous or condemning, it only means I want to share the truth. I share because I care (apologies to Rigel LOL), and not because I want to stir up controversy or dissent. While common, those byproducts are not intentionally instigated. To act otherwise would be inconsistent on my part. Lake Tahoe is my old stomping grounds, seven hours north of Vegas. Northern/Southern NV are almost like two different states in terms of mentality. I'm actually in the northwest now- the wife and I wanted a change of scenery for a while- but we'll eventually head back to the high Sierras when we're ready to buy a few acres, build a house and have some rugrats. But if we are ever in a reasonable vicinity wherever it may be I'd be glad to hoist a beer with ya and talk trading.
Dateline : possibly sometime in the future Place : Lake Tahoe seven hours north of Vegas Purpose : To Solve the Big One darkhorse: "God is able to enter the closed system at will and make His presence and nature known. " daniel m: "No he isn't and No he can't" all others: ok get another beer darkhorse: "God is the Truth" daniel m: "No he isn't" all others: ok get another beer darkhorse & daniel both say in spontaneous harmony "ok, now that's sorted... let's get serious..... Let's Talk Trading" all others: ok get another beer
nope- i'm a mutt quarter english, quarter scottish, quarter italian, eighth african american, eighth american indian
Seriously! well at least you got a 1/4 of good stuff in ya commisso Anyway why did God create Alcohol??? So the Irish would not rule the world! Publias