EXCELLENT THREAD--Tellin it like it is......for the masses. I've been full time trading for 7 years now......I'm very profitable.....but IT IS A RAZOR THIN EDGE between making it as a living and blowing your kids (or your) future for college/retirement. If I knew what I know now--when I started, I wouldn't have ever started trading. THE ODDS ARE THAT BAD-and this comes from a PROFITABLE trader! I just thank my lucky stars. AGAIN--THANKS FOR POSTING SUCH AN HONEST THREAD!
Right dude, So how exactly do I remind you of yourself. Please elaborate. Better yet, elaborate your whole trading experience. I noted that you stated you have not traded for a year. That means you got to experience 2002-2003. Or even 1999 and on? You're telling me you could not bank some serious cash day trading back then? Christ, I just hope for NYSE to trade like it traded in January 2004, let alone the really better times. And I can still pull in a certain income. So when I read your rant, I'm thinking "You suck at trading". Yes, I come in to make money. Once I hit profitable, I used to come in expecting 500-1000 by 12pm and would be dissapointed if I did not make that. I learned a hard lesson from that mentality once this market went to shit in February and now my only real daily goal is not to lose money or lose very little. If you concentrate on your losses and not your wins, it's amazing what results you will get. Just because you let the needed income mentality get to you, does not mean that others do also. Quote by VOLUME: "It is very risky to try this for a living, but no more so than say opening a restaurant....and for those that do "make it" the freedom (both financial and personal) are well worth the shot." 110% correct. Opening up a business, any business is a risky operation. It's one market or another anywhere you look. Are you also suggesting that enterpeneurs and businessmen are making a stupid career choice as well? What exactly is your advice then? Become a corporate slave? I'm pretty sure the last 2-3 years of layoffs and cost cutting have proved that investing time and money in a degree & work experience can possibly leave you unemployed and looking for any measly bit of work. Also a somewhat risky career choice. But I guess the unemployment benefits kinda make that situation a bit more secure. Day trading, swing trading even investing is a career very much based on experience. If you build on your experience, then you can really make some cash. Or at least last till the next bubble, make easy millions and get out.
Yeah, gotta agree that a daytrading-only existence is a little stultifying and that the odds are not great for making it. I didn't. But even if I had been making great money- like I did when I wasn't strictly daytrading- I could never have made my sole existence revolve around it. It just wears you down. Thousands of decisions with real money consequences over the course of a month just eats at you, especially if you're just barely making the nut. Now I'm having the time of my life because it is so easy to just walk. Got a good job, sometimes a tennis game may call early, wife might get frisky (another low probability event, but gotta keep my options open) enough distractions to keep me loose, and all of a sudden daytrading is fun again. Don't see myself daytrading exclusively in the near future. Good luck with the next challenge in your life. Albert
I agree that daytrading for a living is one of the most challenging careers one could choose to undertake. It requires many things that most people don't have, the main one being discipline and self-control. The emotional aspect of this business is unlike any other "job" I've ever had, and I've had quite a few, at the ripe old age of thirty-seven. However, to say that daytrading for a living is not possible is like saying you can't make money playing golf, or any other sport for that matter. I played golf competitively in my younger days, and had dreams of becoming a pro someday. When the reality of the work involved to achieve that dream set in, I made the same choice most other kids do, "get a job". I had the talent and the desire, but was not willing to pay the price to make a living as a golfer. Does that mean that it's not possible? Of course not, there are hundreds of golfers playing the game professionally, some making great money. I know this analogy is somewhat different, but I believe it illustrates what some of the others have said in their posts. I heard one time that "If the dream is big enough, the facts don't count." Sure, there are certain needs that must be met to trade for a living, one of them being capital. But if someone has made a decision that they will do whatever it takes to make it, in this business or any other, they are well on their way. I have failed many times in my attempts to trade for a living, but have always found a way to get "back in the game." When I look at the other options that have been mentioned, such as working for someone else, or starting some other type of business which could also fail just as easily, I always get recommitted to what I'm doing each day to make this work for me. Robert Schuller said that "Success is never-ending, and failure is never final." How's that for some positive-think-speak?
You have struck another pet peeve of mine. It has been my observation that you can take your optimistic attitude and shove it up your ass. I don't care if you come into to work so fired up you've got a hardon and have a Baptist choir sitting next to you singing uplifting hymns all day....even if you just got hypnotized in an elevator by Tony Robbins. The only thing that matters is having an edge. If you don't have that nothing else matters. I am a programmer and I hate computers, I spend countless hours analyzing data and I hate being alone. Maybe I should have been a salesman, lol. I enjoy the challenge of playing the game and I enjoy the feeling of success that comes with knowing that you are very good at something. I also enjoy the freedom of being able to live/travel/do as i please. Now back to my pet peeve. I was profitable from day one because I had an edge. I was (probably still am) a shitty trader, I have always been a decent money manager because I have a very deep understanding of statistics (the only thing I still use from all those years in the math department, ha). Comparing trading to running a business is just plain stupid. I would say it is more like robbing banks for a living; 1) Any asshole can rob a small bank and get away, or shot. The outcome is dumb luck. 2)Very few have made off with gobs of money and done it again and again until they are rich enough to retire. 3) There is no room for error, you can fuck up years of hard work by making a stupid mistake. 4) The best bank robbers are probably very smart, spent a lot of time planning, and probably have some kind of edge. Of course, it is in everyones best interest to pump you up with hopes and dreams. After all, everyone that caters to you, the trader, is in the business of selling and they all stand to profit by pumping you up! Oh and my other pet peeve is people who can't spell loser. Half of this board spells it looser...lol. Which brings me to another observation. If you are not smart enough to spell loser correctly, do you think you are smart enough to know when you have an edge? It is one thing to think you have an edge and another to really have one.
JT: >It is one thing to think you have an edge and >another to really have one. Wow, this thread is producing some jewels. First Spect8or's quote about the randomness of the markets and now this one. It's a tough gig. Think otherwise and you're done. JB
Bro you are right on the money. Excellent post. Its funny how people think that traders should make X amount of money every week or month. To me it all depends on the opportunity at hand. I dont think of it in terms of getting a pay check every month.. sometimes I can place 5 trades the whole month and the next month i'll do 50. It all comes down to how many times I see a worthy opportunity to take a risk. --MIKE
Clearly you were undercapitalized. It is much easier to make 10% on 300K then 100% on 30K. I think the lesson should be restated: - do not start trading for a living until profitable for a couple of years; - have enough capital, your yearly return should cover your expenses and leave enough to keep account growing; - have patience and discipline to not "go for it" until above criteria are met... just common sense; - find a way control your risk to make sure you stay in the game; Good Luck. You should also get a credit for an obviously gutsy move.