"Hitman is a nice guy. I saw him before. In this industry, if some person can do well, it means that he must have some special point. I think that Hitman's passion is his greatest part. passion can let him win a lot more than the other people with some background but without passion. I still respect him. Hope that he can do better and better." I'm sure he is a nice guy (a little too sensitive/desperate) but that has nothing to do with the fact that you can get someone alot better than him to train you. As for Generic, I think there was a thread about them a few months back.
Thank you for your reply. I read the threads about generic trading. But I don't think it gave something important. And also I didnot see too many threads about this company. is it meaning that this company is not as good as the others?
Whoa? $100,000 a year is better than 90% of the day-traders out there. What the hell are you talking about?
liltrdr- No disrespect if you are still a Worldco trader. Same goes for hitman, as I have read some of his posts and find value in them. However, with all due concern for a fellow trader. I do have my own Worldco experience to relay to roumeo. >>This firm is by far the best shot for someone just starting out. < I wish I could say that was my experience in interviewing with them. I had High hopes at the time. **Note to Elitetrader reader: This is a posting from another board I subscribe to, therefore some of the remarks made will seem out of context. Please do not reply to this post attempting to make me aware of the fallacy of some statement that doesn't apply here. Moreover, although some of the statements that I relay here are in no way similar to those at other Worldco offices. They are in fact the ones that were relayed to me at the time of my interview.** Just had an interview with WorldCo Author: momotrdr Date: Dec 21, 2001 11:44 AM EST . . .. 90%+ of their daytrading is done on listed stocks. Their website suggests WorldCo. provides the Capital. I can assure you that is NOT the case. If you want to trade the Naz you are expected to come up with a 25k contribution. If trading listed they will most likely still ask for some money up front. They did to me. The said I could come on board if I wrote a check on the spot for 10k. The urgency of the request sent up all the warning signs of a scam. Although in retrospect, it was most likely really really bad salesmanship. You basically practice on your own money. What this says...Worldco isn't going to commit a dime to you unless you can prove that you don't loose money. Fair enough. Suggestion to anyone thinking of interviewing there. If you are going to have to risk your own capital, then my GOD do it from home. Trade your own direct access account! You don't need to trade through WorldCo to do know if you are a winner or loser. If you're thinking of learning from some Superior Sr. Trader think again. I asked specifically for the outline of the training program they had. However, the most that could be offered was that the basic mechanics of trading would be taught and you "could" shadow one of the veterans for a few weeks to a month or so. However, there was no guarantee that you'd be able to train with the same trader each time. The styles, methods, conceptual thinking varies drastically from trader to trader. Wanna learn how to ride a bike again? If so, then you might like the training they advertise. They make their money off your commissions. So they are going to expect you to trade quite a few time a day. They'll start you off by giving you 70% of the profit, it can be ramped up from there, up to 95%. However, you will not be allowed to trade more the 100 shares until they deem you qualified. Considering that they would have at least 10k of my money. I would think I could determine that for myself. Potentially, I could see that you might want to obtain your series 7,55, & 63 for future employment endeavors. There again..you would have had to pay for that as well. Read carefully the fine print my friends. WorldCo. will put zero dollars at risk when you're coming on board. Part II Author: momotrdr Date: Dec 21, 2001 9:51 PM EST According to the MD who I interviewed with, each branch has its own policies. Therefore, already being a successful trader may or may not play into your hiring agreement. It didn't with me. I've been doing this fulltime for a year. And have been successful. Margin was mentioned of something like 10 to 1. Translation, you will get all the rope you need to hang yourself. Ironically, enough money will be the least of your worries. More specifically to the point. I'll break it down for you. The following are directly from the notes I took down while being explained what they could offer me. For Listed stock Day Trader: 10k contribution. <- - this was the amt. they requested from me start off trading 100 shares 70% payout $5-per ticket initial buy/sell that is for the first round trip. then you can trade that stock an unlimited amount of times with only ECN & SEC fees to pay which depending on which ECN you use of course this fee will vary. <- - although I wasn't sure if I understood this correctly. I though that it might have something to do with the fact they are self-clearing If you are a Nasdaq trader: 25K contribution up front. No if ands or butts Here is the really lame part. If you are like me and are a swing trader as well as day trader Here is the formula they offered to me: They will setup two accounts for you. One is your day trading acct. the other is your overnight. Both of these he implied you pay some fee for. Although at that point I was looking at my watch. So I didn't bother asking the fee. You are expected to trade a certain amount in your short-term account(which is where they make their comm.) in order to cover their cost to have the Naz accts. Yes, this implies they are making a profit off you for just maintaining the accts. You can buy and sell as many times as you like thru your day trading acct. only paying for minimal fees similiar to the listed account. However, and this is very very important and IMHO is the lamest part. Any stock you decide to hold an overnight position on in your Naz acct. you must call the H.Q. and have them put it in the LT acct. for you. Then..when you decide to sell out your long or short position that you've held for however long..you must call them Again! and they will sell it for you! Thats right you cannot even route your own order to sell. Didn't even bother to ask if they'd keep the *uck'n spread. I figured that was implied as well. <- -Again this is the information that was relayed to me by the MD who interviewed me. In answer to your comment earlier. Yes, it is sink or swim. Only, when you jump in this pool to dog pattle they don't throw you a line if you start drowning. In fact, you could expect a lead-weight to quicken your descent. I've got to tell you my friend. When I hear you say things like.."Still if your good" Plz. don't do that to yourself. Nobody and you know this..Nobody is that good. The market is what it is. Unfortunately in this scenario even if you are good on your own, and used to trading a certain way. Trust me you won't be trading that way if you start there. You Will use their style and their methods and you will be trading Listed stocks if you don't have the 25k to front. Don't know about you, but all I've ever traded has been the Nasdaq. Finally, and don't take this the wrong way. But if you are in college right now. The LAST thing you need to be doing is DAYTRADING. Get yourself done with your studies. If you really are as good as you think..Swing trading will bring all the money you need. Even the latest books by some of the industry's best day-traders and market makers are saying that the best way to profit in today's markets are by swing and momentum trading. These firms are not the only options for you. If you really believe that. Then they've already got you. Part III- I'm going to make this brief since the previous paragraphs have most likely made the point and then some. However, not more than a month or so later. A friend called me up to ask some advice for an interview that he was going to have. He asked if I knew what proprietary trading was and if I had ever heard of Worldco. Once I picked myself up off the floor from laughing I of course explained my entire experience. However, instead of turning him away from the interview we both decided to use my experience to potentially benefit him. I pointed out all the errs in judgement that I felt hindered me. However, most specifically I was concerned with the nagging feeling that I could have been asked to write a check for a considerable lower amount than 10k. Therefore it was this that we focused on developing and finding out just how low Worldco would go. To put it bluntly, my friend walked out of the Worldco office after going through an interview process much like mine. Only different in 5,000 ways. Needless to say my friend didn't end up taking the position even though it would have been a drop in the bucket to start with as little as a 5k contribution. Oh, and almost forgot to mention, that with him they even offered to cover his books and study material. forshame Worldco. Not much integrity in my opinion. -momo
I cannot speak for any other offices. My experience has been good, so far. I will obviously leave in a hurry if they pull a bait and switch but this is the risk we take! Goldman pulled a bait and switch when it yanked a lot of entry level analyst jobs. This is our industry. Sleazy, disgusting and reprehensible. Lies everywhere. Sometimes I feel like Fox Mulder. Once I think I've found the "Truth", there is always somethinge else hidden. Worldco is what it is. The Boca branch seems good. College grads put up 0 capital. 5K gets you a better deal. 10K gets you an even better deal. If you have any talent, you can move very quickly in share size. They're eager to move your size up from what I understand. Hitman moved very rapidly once he turned net profitable. Maybe I'm just writing this to ease my own fears But where else am I going to get this shot? Goldman? Merill? And the hiring in Chicago is drying up fast.
I've thought of that already and I'm doing it now. My fear is that during a terrorist attack, my equity will be wiped out. If I'm w/ a solid prop firm, I will probably be able to continue. I only have history as my guide as Worldco survived 9/11 w/out too many problems. That is my only concern.
Ive been at Worldco since 7/1999. Since I joined the firm, many things have changed and many traders have left the firm (and joined). There were about 250 traders in 1999...not there are about 700. I know they have been firing unprfitable traders (net net) recently.... I guess the industry as a whole is downsizing. As for comments by a guy named VOLUME, I wonder how many yeears he has been trading and how he is doing? Trading is probably one of the most difficult business to be in to make a living and probably has the lowest % of success. We give up so much (security, less stress, benefits...etc) in the hopes of making it as a trader. If you can AVERAGE $1000 a day, you can make $250G a year..Not a bad living if you spend it wisely. As for Hitman, he seems to be on his way to making it as a trader. The tops guys at Wldco did between $2M - $2.5M last few years....Obviously, they are few in a million. Whichever firm you decide to go with, you will be bascially picking the least of all evils. We are in a business where even written contracts don't mean anything. I know for a fact that a group of guys who were running a group of traders left Generic under bad circumstances and when Generic renegged on their end of the bargain, Generic bascially said "Sue us". What can you do? That's just the way it is. Generic has a big operation...Many sub-LLC's and groups. Do your homework and no matter how much you research, in the end, you have to pick a firm for which you never worked before...and you have no way of comparing to others because you haven't worked for them either. Forget the written contracts - they can all be broken or re-negotiated. Im still at Worldco because the owners of the firm has determined that it is worth for them to give me the opportunities and the flexibilties and other benefits. One thing Walter Bruan is extremely fond of...is a trader who is driven (almost to a point of being crazy, like himself), and is obviously working hard at becoming a better trader. Somebody who comes in a 5am and leaves at 8pm. Somebody who is a pain in the ass towards senior traders asking million questions. I guess I fit that mold earlier to convince him that I was worth keeping even when I was into THEIR money for $150,000. He was right - I dug myself out of the hole and now I trade remote from Upstate, NY. I've gotten most of what I want out of Worldco so far. But I would not be surprised if they cut me loose as soon as I become unprofitable for them net net. No hard feelings...Dont want to burn any bridges...Its a very small industry. People leave and return all the time. My advice to new traders is this: (1) Minimize your initial capital contribution because you WILL blow it (2) Make sure you have saved enough money to live on for at least 6 - 12 months (longer the better) (3) Trade little and learn as much as you can from profitable (not just "senior") traders. (4) Have someone you can talk to when you are down....preferably another trader who can sympathize (5) Talk to a shrink if you can afford it (SAC has an in-house shrink for their traders....if THEY need it, trust me - you need it too) and lastly...........(6) DON'T EVER GIVE UP!...