Stu which church and which dogma said the world was flat

jem, just a couple of words in reply...

I didn't say something like ‘oh shit’, I actually said 'Noshit jem'. You see there is a world of difference between oh shit and Noshit, even on a message board.

If you LEARNED your stuff off the internet, (please note I emphasised the word LEARNED), it is testament to the probability you are not doing too well getting at the essential reality of something when you are reading words wrongly , like for instance Noshit as oh shit.

Just to make it clear, my use of Noshit was mostly in fun (although having to explain this takes the edge off that somewhat ) and partly to expose the rather massive hole which you dug for yourself.

Seeing on how you seem to still be digging let me explain a little further.

You said this..... Well to my surprise not only was the church apprently not claiming the world was flat, just about no one was. This blew me away.” And "I really am blown away by the total and complete brainwashing bullshit they put in text books....."

Then you follow up by saying about church and Columbus... "I can not believe I got my facts wrong” ..... and this is the reason you give why you were ‘blown away’“Sure I learned this on the internet"

So is it your assumption that there is no "total and complete brainwashing bullshit" which you LEARNED on the internet. But rather that this "complete brainwashing bullshit" is only present in text books and any stuff you are taught at school ? If everything you are told or learned is brainwash, why shouldn’t the Bible, which is a text book and which you were told about, be brainwash along with all the hocus pocus that goes with it? It sure as hell sounds like brainwash.

And THEN you talk of facts!!?? After all that you cannot believe you got your FACTS wrong??!! Do you not see the obvious ridiculousness in what you are saying??

Here are some FACTS which might help to straighten things up a little.

I said this.....

"Columbus did not presuppose anything.
There was boat loads of scientific information, supportable evidence and knowledge which he applied to the confirmation of his proposal.
He scientifically predicted the world was not flat
The only ones who wanted to the world to remain flat was the church, because of their dogma and interpretation of the Bibble."

The catholic church was spewing forth a dogma (still does) of so called infallible truth.
They declared their teaching as canonical, inerrant revelation (still do) which is inspired by the holy ghost. God being the provider of such knowledge and understandings. God said the world was flat, he made it clear for all to see in the holy Bible.

The catholic church were imposing the teachings of the 'all wise' Father St. Augustine speaking ex cathedra, who declared it impossible for there to be any antipodes. Funnily enough they don't any longer. I wonder why !! Nowadays all christians do is deny they ever believed the earth was flat. I WONDER WHY??

Columbus was obliged to attend the Council of Salamanca. It was there that the 'Cosa Nostra' wing of the church accused Columbus of heresy. Their reasoning being that such notion of a round earth was a contradiction of The Holy Moses and thereby against the Word of God.

"Finally, you called a conspiracy I call it an the board of education. "

The board of education is a conspiracy?? They impose the christian religion in schools. So therefore it is imposition of religion upon children which is the conspiracy? I think you might have a point there.


"Finally, when I reread your rant, I see you did not check my sources. At the time of Columbus the chruch was not saying the world was round. And the the major chruch theologians had accepted that the world was a sphere."

Another Finally?

Just 'cause you don't like what I say does not make it a rant. And just how do I check your sources if your sources of LEARNING are simply the whole of the internet ??

Re-read what I say above. The church was imposing the word of God as per St Augustine. God said it was flat, Moses spake the word of God and said it was flat, the inerrant revelation of St Augustine said it was flat, The Roman Catholic Church said it was flat, therefore IT WAS FUKIN FLAT.

Theologians had indeed accepted the world was not flat, you are confirming my statement ..“ The popes knew well enough about the erroneous fatuities of the Bible by the 9th century” However church theology most certainly had not accepted the world was flat, any more than it accepted the earth was not at the centre of the universe, or that the earth revolved around the sun.

"Forst of all in Isaiah 40.22 we see that the earth is a circle. the hebrew word for circle can also mean sphere. And in Luke we see that the second coming will come when some are asleep at night and some are working in the field. An indication of a rotating earth no?"

No. More like an indication of a moving sun and a bunch of active insomniacs.
But you are digressing now. This thread you started was about the church’s dogmatic interpretation and enforcement of the Bible at the time of Columbus, not your interpretation. You now are also contradicting the holy writ of St Augustine.

If you did this at the time of Columbus, during the Inquisition, you were a heretic and would be put to death in a painful manner by order of the catholic church.

I recall shoeshine attempting to contort his way around the Hebrew language, trying to interpret it to mean something it doesn't say and say something it doesn't mean. You seem to be attempting the same ploy.

If you are LEARNING your stuff from such places as christiananswers.com or catholics/are/never/wrong.duh then the Hebrew text, reality, rationality, meaning, value, facts, all mean anything the theist wants them to mean.

And No jem, "WE" do not see ...l@@k....

Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

The Hebrew word for circle is 'chuwg' the Hebrew word for ball is 'duwr'. The earth like a sphere is more a ball. It is not a circle. Chwug does not mean sphere. It would not require to be ‘circle’ for lack of a suitable Hebrew word for round or globe or ball as a spherical object.

Job (22:14) "He walks on the dome of the skies." God walks on the dome of the skies. Only a flat earth is covered by a dome of the skies. (I guess today he now would need to walk on the dome of the outer space!)

Revelation (7:1) "I saw four messengers standing at earth's four corners."

Earth's four corners?? Do circles have four corners?? Do globes or spheres have four corners? Or a flat earth with four corners?

Matthew 4:8 "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them"

How did the devil show all the kingdoms from a high spot if the earth was round ??

These are some of "Gods Holy Words" which caused the theology of the church to pronounce the earth as flat.

It’s not hard to see how these christian bigot priests and popes enforced, through embarrassment and fear of loss of credibility, (against what they knew to be the case thanks to the Greeks), the word of God as laid down by Augustine, that declared the world as flat. They only gave this idea up when the overwhelming weight of scientific evidence and the chance to profit from the fact, forced them screaming and kicking into admission. Now Christian apologists replicate this deceit by trying to pretend, presumably to protect their precious “belief”, that the christian church never declared through ‘holy word’ the earth to be flat.

Btw,
Cutting and pasting from creationists’ web sites is not LEARNING that you have been brainwashed. That shit IS the brainwash

So in conclusion your challenge was :

My answer:
The Roman Catholic Christian Church
The inerrant divine revelation of sacred truth as decreed by the Vatican Council of the Roman Catholic Christian Church

 

Hey inandlong. How you doin. Good to hear from you

Ahh... remember it well. Those were the days. The heady to and fro-ing... when we were all such young things.. (apart from doubter), so eager and so full of.....well.... full of it !

Thanks for your kind words (they were kind weren't they ). Personally I find it more a 'good thing' to admonish such notions as "a faith in the Lord" than swallowing that kind of stuff hook line and sinker. I consider it important to choose very carefully things to have faith in. Relying on so called holy scriptures whose origins and purposes are so obviously dubious and so seriously flawed, is not something which presents itself as a compelling proposition for faith.

I am glad you approve of my inducing expressions of strong ideas in the supernatural, as I see the delicate young flower which is Elitetrader, growing in a nutrient starved clay soil of unworthy belief, and I think of myself as a slow release fertilizer. I should develop a trade name, maybe something on the lines of El Torro Kristi Brand : Bullius Compostus.

However I am sure you must know I respect your point of view and although I may disagree (not to mention the fact I am of course obviously correct ), I hold nothing but the very best wishes for you.

PS: YES ha ha.. Rabbit Hood.... Hilarious !! The Errol Flynn character realises what Bugsy has done and ends up jumping about the place shouting I hateth myself... LOL very funny. Definitely a favorite of mine too.

D'ya reckon a few ex-theists out there are doing the same !

Peace and happiness

stu

 

Bugger it inandlong. !! Just when ya think this religious thing is going to say summink meaningful - in all seriousness - …then pooof . Ain’t it always the same.

So then, still no guide on whether the earth might be round or flat?

….”and hastening to its place it [the sun] rises there again.” This was the ever so wise Solomon was it?

He was probably going off the Word of God was he …. so it must be right then.

Hmm, but come to think of it, the sun “hastening to its place”…. Moving around the earth?? That’s the wrong way around isn’t it? Doesn’t the earth circle the sun??

Let’s just put it down to something apocryphal, shrug shoulders and pretend it’s ok.

See, that’s better. There’s that nice feeling of warm and fuzzy again, sweeping away any awkward moments of rationality.

 

stu: I have deleted the word "ridicule" from my post....so again , Im just curious what you would consider a more comprehensive look at the history of man from the beginning? I just need some book titles if you don;'t mind.....You kind of went off on a tangent about the bible but im just wondering what you would consider a better source? after all, most of your criticisms of the holy books comes from reading other books...you and i weren't there so we have to rely on others words...

 

I'm waiting for ART or Aphex to chime in with "you can't PROVE that the world is round."

 

these guys will set you straight !

LOL !

http://www.flat-earth.org/


surfer

 

LOL. Just about fell off my chair reading that site.

This is a gem: "The theory of gravity has never been proven."

Aphex wrote this, right?

 

Interesting.....theory....BTW....can anyone actually PROVE gravity exists? Throw a rock in the air and it will fall to the ground.....but does that prove gravity exists or is that just an end result, much like when people say "I know God exists because of my little baby".....You cannot see gravity, touch it, hear it, smell it.....but most people say it exists because of what happen when a apple falls from a tree.

 

c'mon .. you're putting us all on. are you really truly THIS stoopid??!! SNORT!! SNORT!!

 

Just applying the same principals for the existence of God and Gravity...BTW Learn how to spell...STUPID!