If this is your view and only if this is your view then I am on with you... The only thing is that I don't trust a guy like Bush and Cheney... There are many key points... financial scandals where both Cheney and Bush are implied.. the aim of taking and profiting from Iraki Oil and also the US bill in that part of the world... Of course I also want to be optimistic and I also want peace and a real democracy in that part of the world.. But the way Bush speaks and behaves is really scarring me.. I sincerely hope you are right and I am wrong even if I doubt it...
keep it up traderfut, you are gaining converts to the side of reason and logic. Too bad for you that isn't your side. By the way, keep up calling your oponents blind, stupid, naive, racist, etc. it really helps your argument....LOL
Sorry Dotty, but anyone who supports the insane crimes of the American foreign policy makers should not cry to the international community the next time a September 11th happens... the more people the US decides to bomb, puppetise, exploit and murder, the higher is global hatred for what America stands for... its a pity, because its the innocent American citizen who will be punished for the crimes of the leaders and policymakers... the grotesque retaliatory terrorism of September 11th was a direct ramification of direct and indirect American crimes... id quot circumiret, circumveniat... once America stops her international crimes, she will stop being subjected to revenge crimes... the answer lies within, not without.... God Bless America, the international victims of American terrorism and the American victims of retaliatory international terrorism...
I have disagreed with Dotslash, but not here. He is right. I give some credence to some but not all of Traderfut's arguments. However it seems Traderfut is at fault for name calling and letting his emotions into what should be well thought out disagreement. And then the disagreement he expresses without his emotions are primarily just quotes selected to conform to his views. Quoting editorials proves absolutely nothing. Just opinions. For every opinion Traderfut has quoted, an equally compelling qoute can be found elsewhere in the worlds' press. Traderfut has said to me that he believes me to be impartial and objective. I think "open minded" would be a better way to describe how I feel. I haven't all the answers, I haven't all the information to make really informed judgements. I too could editorialize and actually make an argument for each side. Because there are arguments for both sides. But Traderfut, although obviously very bright and thoughtful, seems to have a black and white view of many things. We have debated the Israeli/Palestinian conflicts, and to him, Israel is the evil power, and the Palestinians are victims. Well, again, Israel has much to be ashamed of. But the Palestinians that continue to provoke violence are beneath contemp. They rejoice at the death of innocents. The Israelis and their govenment do not. So Traderfut sees only the evil perpetrated by the US, and Israel (perceived). Arafat is a hero and Sharon is a war criminal. But the truth, as any right thinking person should clearly see is that neither of these leaders are to be admired. They are both bad guys. But Sharon would never have been elected if the Israeli people had not reached such a level of fear that they felt they needed a leader as ruthless as the leader of their enemy, Arafat. No good can come of this until they are both gone. If the Palestinians stopped their terrorist tactics and accepted peace, Sharon would be out of office the same day. So what does all this have to do with Iraq? Quite a bit. Our "war" with Al Qada is a war with an enemy that uses religion as a basis for determining who is evil and who deserves death. Iraq is not a theocratic state. The Palestinians are not fighting in the name of Allah either. Both the Iraqi's and the Palestinians (their leadership) are fighting only for power, money, resources and ancient grudges. I said this before: If the Arab world would put down their arms, there would be no more war in the Middle East. If the Israelis were to put down their arms, there would be no more Israel. Likewise, if the US does not stay vigilant in regards to fanatical Islamic terror threats, or to a madman like Saddam, then the US too would be in great peril to even exist. If Saddam did have nuclear capabilities, and he believed that swift retaliation would not be in the cards, he wouldn't hesitate for a second to deploy his weapons. What is scary now about the contemplated attack on Iraq is that this time around, Israel is less likely to show restraint. This could set off the end of the world, literally. Israel right now has become a place in which the people want peace, but the opponents won't consider it. And so, their existence depends on defense. They will not surrender. They would rather perish than to be "driven into the sea" as is the stated Arab doctrine, and has been since the inception of the state. There are no easy answers. But Traderfut seems to think that things are clear. They are not. The Arab world is today's greatest threat to the world. This cannot be disputed. This does not mean that Arab people are evil. This only means that the dictatorships, and royal families and the incredible lack of civil liberties and education and economic opportunity keeps the people under the strong-arm leaderships in these countries ignorant and easily manipulated to believe their enemies are whoever their leaders tell them they are. They end up supporting and idolizing those that in truth, are thier own worst enemies. They are so oppressed and brainwashed that they end up fighting for those who use them as disposable pawns. So sad! Peace!
That's unfortunate... But as you said there is a whole generation of people that hates the US that is growing... Look at Palestine.. We can sat whatever we want about Arafat... but he is a guy democratically elected, loved and supported by his people and whenever there is a bomb attack he always condemned it. The hamas recognized being behind the attack and what happened is that after that terrorist attack Sharon did not find anything except attacking Araft himself in his bilding and destroying all what remained of the palestinian authority... a person that is ill and that has parkinson... I don't want Israelis to be respectful of a guy because he is old and ill but I think that disregarding the whole international community and attacking directly a stateman democratically elected in his offices are not the acts of a democrat .... The result are certain,... more and more palestinian will want a revenge and they will sacrifice their lives to kill other innocent lives.... crazy spiral.. and only a powerful country can stop it...
Actually, I would give that accolade to the USA, which has backed the non-democratic Arab states to the hilt to secure compliance in oil demands, provided weapons to Saddam to gas his and other people with, built up and provided logistical support to Osama, supported Apartheid in South Africa and created puppet regimes in Africa to exploit the oil and diamond mines, bombed the living daylights out of Nam, massacred countless people around the world, used weapons of mass destruction (specifically nukes) etc etc... the USA continues to be the biggest threat to global peace... that's the reality...
This is a private mail I sent you about Israel and what I think about the situation... "On the middle east for instance, it seems unfair to put the all the blame on Arafat when you have a guy like Sharon, who is a murderer, and say nothing about his acts... If Arafat is not an acceptable leader for the US so should be Sharon whose history is full of blood of innocent people.. instead of that Bush said he was a man of peace⦠a man that contributed directly to the killings of Sabra and Chatila with more than 15,000 civilian death Is not a man of peace⦠" Please tell me where have I said that Israel was evil and palestinian innocents???? I just talked about justice, I thought you would understand ly words which are clear.... Moreover, when I say to somebody that he is blind is that when a person after being given all the evidences and proves that war sucks and that the US certainly don't go in Irak for the human rights then for me I have no words for that person than blindness and stupid... WHY????? because many innocent people will die and encouraging the US to go to war is encouraging the killings of innocent people and if somebody whatever his race religion nationality ancourages that stupid war then he is really blind... I thought you were experienced enough to know that the people that declare war usually don't fight..
Arafat is a useless old man who cannot control his people from commiting atrocities against innocent Israelis... Sharon is a power-mad old man who will not prevent his soldiers from minimising collateral damage in the pursuit of terrorists... they are made for eachother...
What you say is so true.... I am very happy that you say those words because if it was me I would have been called partial non objective hating the US.... but these are facts... I am sure that the average american does not know the crimes that their government makes in their names and they still belive in the version we are defending the interests of the planet while the reality is completely different ... Yes Mobutu on of the bloodiest dictator of Africa was a CIA agent.. and yes prime minister Lumumba of Congo(now zaire) was killed by the Cia to let Mobutu take power... Go and say to people of zaire the US loves you... Thanks to the US their country one of the richest in Africa, only knew conflicts and hunger.. and many other dictators in that planet are armed and backed by the US... But of course I am blind and of course the US intents in Irak are only human rights and create a real democracy.... I swear to god that if there is a real democracy in Irak I will completely and totally change my mind.... But i know for sure that if the US wanted to eliminate Saddam they could have done it long time ago.... and why they did not do it... certainly because talking about human rights and democracy but "finding" a democrat and asking him to play for the US is another story... A democrat would certainly have played it differently and if in the Opec there were less dictators, then may be oil prices would be a bit higher and for the US its a lot of money... So why have democrats while you can have puppet gvts you can manipulate the way you want and piut pressure on them the way you want... NO democracy in that part of the world is certainly not the best interest for the US...
However you are right, I am sorry to have treated BABAK stupid... Even if I believe that he really should open his mind.. this was not my intent but I was a bit ulcered knowing tha more innocent people will die and that a guy like Babak calls for war without dissecting all the info... Peace