strategies and tactics on trading larger sizes or blocks

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by Ironplates, Aug 17, 2022.

  1. CannonTrading_Ilan

    CannonTrading_Ilan Sponsor

    @Overnight you have a few good points and suggestions.
    First you are correct, the iceberg does NOT break the 40 lot ( in my specific example) into 4 different 10 lot orders. What it does is it will only show the 40 lot as a 10 lot. Once the 10 lot fills, it will fire a second 10 lot and so on until the full order is filled.
    Depending on the specific market/ exchange and the front end you are using, there a few ways to go about icebergs.
    CQG for example offers the "standard iceberg" where it sends the order to the exchange as an iceberg and the exchange has their own ALGO on how to fire the orders after the initial 10 lot got filled.

    upload_2022-8-19_7-50-33.png


    CQG also created their own ALGO that will manage the iceberg on their server and I am including a screen shot below. This came about as different tools appeared trying to detect iceberg orders ( to show the information that there are some large orders waiting at that specific price, like Bookmap which does a great job visualizing the info). By managing the iceberg on CQG own servers the exchange does not see the order as an iceberg.
    upload_2022-8-19_7-52-48.png
    Your suggestion to demonstrate this on a low volume account is correct. It has to be a LIVE account and not a demo for this specific purpose because we need to show how the order is working on the LIVE exchange and how it fires the next part once filled. I will play around with this and see if I can do it on a live account or not next week.
     
    #11     Aug 19, 2022
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  2. CannonTrading_Ilan

    CannonTrading_Ilan Sponsor

    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
    #12     Aug 23, 2022
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  3. MarkBrown

    MarkBrown

    let's say you wanted to trade 50 - just keep that in mind. never show your cards, so maybe

    1.) enter with 10 and your exit presents itself take it.

    2.) enter with 10 and market moves against you, if your setup is still valid. buy another 10 at the better price. if your exit presents itself take it.

    3.) enter 10 goes against you, enter 10 more goes against you, now do the 30 if your setup is still valid.
    if your exit presents itself take it.

    4.) not for everyone ok, at #3 scenario, at a predetermined level - i would not hesitate to flip the entire position in an instance. at this point i want to get my money back and get to break even then keep about 10 on and let them run.

    m

    lot's of guys trade 100's so when you see 200 they are flipping positions most likely.
     
    #13     Aug 23, 2022
  4. "lot's of guys trade 100's so when you see 200 they are flipping positions most likely." are you implying these are reversal trades?
     
    #14     Aug 24, 2022
  5. MarkBrown

    MarkBrown

    will the word yes clarify ? or you need a more in depth type of yes?
     
    #15     Aug 24, 2022
    Ironplates likes this.
  6. Overnight

    Overnight

    No no no, that was terrible! You are doing it on a ladder that is moving too fast! I told you, you must do it on a forward month so we can follow the orders as they fall onto the book on a SLOW-MOVING ladder/book! Try again on the Mar 2023 contracts after the roll in three weeks. (I was also disturbed by your comment that because it was a live account you could not let the order execute.) Oy!

    Sorry Ilan, but you deserve it...

     
    #16     Aug 24, 2022
    Ironplates likes this.
  7. CannonTrading_Ilan

    CannonTrading_Ilan Sponsor

    Sorry @Overnight you missed the point. The video does a good job explaining exactly what an iceberg order does and the purpose of it.
    it is using LIVE order book in a live market.
    We slowed the video down to show exactly how an 8 lot only increased the order book by 1 and not by 8.
     
    #17     Aug 25, 2022
  8. i agree.

    this scene comes to mind. more importantly, the scene right after where Jeff Daniels provides a constructive debrief of the situation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2022
    #18     Aug 26, 2022