Stops

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by tortoise, Feb 24, 2006.

  1. volente_00

    volente_00







    "Almost 95% of the rich people in the financial world made their money from STOCKS."




    I disagree, if you know how to trade stocks, then you should be able to trade spy,qqq, and dia, if you can trade those 3 then you can make some discilpine adjustments and move to futures and do the same. A charts is chart, if you know how to read them and how to use them for trading it does not matter much if you are trading apples or oranges.

    The only difference between stocks in futures is the speed and leverage.
     
    #51     Feb 25, 2006
  2. u are wrong, stocks influenced by news (that's were the serious money can be made) behave completely differently from futs; support and resistance most of the time are ominously absent from the scene...talking about two different universes here.
     
    #52     Feb 25, 2006
  3. tortoise

    tortoise

     
    #53     Feb 25, 2006
  4. futures are a pure supply/demand vehicle. that is why i trade (on an intraday basis) YM almost exclusively.

    stocks i love. I INVEST in stocks, and even swing trade or occasionally daytrade them. But for intraday trading, imo, nothing offers more opportunities, return on capital and pure no bulls***t price action than futures.

    futures are hard for many to trade because you can't usually use the same models you use for stocks. However, unlike most stocks they are not subject to many of the short term foibles that stocks are. When institutions, big money, small money, etc. want to buy stocks, they fire big ole baskets etc. and these indexes move based on that pure supply/demand. I just find it a much more pure movement to trade on pure price action than most stocks, where the MM's can paint the tape on an intraday basis, and news and hype can cause more unpredictable swings.

    The leverage is phenomenal. But you HAVE to use tight stops and tight risk control on an intraday basis, or they can rip yer head off. Personally, I keep 10k in my futurea ccount. That is more than enough to generate a nice income trading futures (2-5 cars is a comfortable contract size),and one can filter off profits every week into more conventional investments and retain capital.

    I am not aware of any other trading vehicle that can generate a nice steady income stream with so little capital at risk.

    Options on futures are also a great vehicle to use, if you are taking position trades in futures (vs. intraday scalps).

    As a side note, imo, YM is a vastly superior scalping vehicle than ES for a # of reasons, primary of which is spread. The fact that most traders use ES is proof positive imo of a faulty decision matrix. Why would you want to scalp a vehicle (ES) with a spread that is vastly inferior to YM. YM spread means you have far more flexibility in setting stops, and you are less likely to get hit. Also, I believe that if your trading methodology uses lagging indicators (MACD, Stoch, etc.) it is much harder to be successful trading index futures. I feel the same way about those whose methodology uses mostly market orders. In futures, imo, you gotta let the market come to your entry level, NEVER NEVER NEVER chase a move.
     
    #54     Feb 25, 2006
  5. tortoise

    tortoise


    Sorry, I didn't see it. Yes, I consider myself a "noob" es trader. I have been trading the es consistently for about six months. As I mentioned in the opening post, I have experimented with stops of all kinds, so it's difficult for me to categorize "which" stop I've used. There's nothing exceptional about my trading style -- support & resistance, time & sales.

    My experience with the es, such as it is, leaves me scratching my head a bit over the naysaying. But, I'll be the first to admit, six months is nothing, and I remain, daily, watchful for the moment when Father Statistics decides to bite me on the ass.
     
    #55     Feb 25, 2006
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    #56     Feb 25, 2006
  7. tortoise

    tortoise

    Bitstream, thanks. This is an excellent post, of the level I've come to expect from you (and I mean that to be respectful and appreciative, not patronizing). I love to hear the facts, and the reasons behind people's opinions: It's the only way I know how to learn. You've offered both. Thanks again.
     
    #57     Feb 25, 2006
  8. "already stated that I've seen countless new traders here and elsewhere blow out over and over and come across no one of them able to master futs. "

    look, most small businesses fail.

    trading is no different. futures (unlike stocks) are a zero sum game. they are contracts. for every loser, there is a winner.

    i certainly don't think i have "mastered" futures lol. however, i do use them to make a consistent income and have done this successfully with intraday scalps. so, i know it can be done. i do it. i don't think my analytical skills are what does it. imo, the reason why most people lose (and remember, the same # of trades are winners as are losers in futures) has to do with emotions, failure to follow rules, etc.

    ALL u have to do to win in futures is 1) have a methodology that gives an edge that is greater than slippage/commission 2) strictly stick to that methodology 3) use proper position sizing/money managment such that risk of ruin is minimized and the system is allowed sufficient headroom to work out.

    i am most definitely not automated, but i have strict rule based trading.

    the markets (futures) work such that they tend to cause the most amount of pain to most # of traders. that is not because they are externally designed that way, that is because that is the natural result of interaction of trader transactions.

    john carter said it best "markets don't move because they want to. they move because they have to"
     
    #58     Feb 25, 2006
  9. volente_00

    volente_00



    and futs are not influenced by news ?

    How much did ES move on the last fed meeting on the announcment ?

    Does ES not move down when a S&P company announce that they missed earnings ?
     
    #59     Feb 25, 2006
  10. not every single day they move and very rarely trend, also those moves can be much more erratic than on listed issues and cause enormous losses if the release is interpreted the wrong way (last fomc announcement).
     
    #60     Feb 25, 2006