Stop Losses are killing me

Discussion in 'Trading' started by Sequoia1321, Jul 1, 2020.

  1. we can now compare the 2 outcomes
    adding to loser vs adding to winner
    loser ad = max risk was 1400
    winner ad max risk was 500
    loser add gain max was 2600
    winner add gain max was 1400
    the clear choice from risk to reward is the adding to a winner. when you add to a winner you capture all the winning points where when adding to a loser you capture all the losing points.

    you have a cushion on your winning trade versus reducing the cushion or adding to risk by adding to a loser.

    you are up 200 on a trade in sp500 mini on a 1 lot. mkt was at 3000 on entry. now at 3004
    3000 long 1 n mkt at 3004 up 200
    3004.25 you get filled on a 10 lot buy.
    avg price is now 3003.83 you have 2 ticks of breathing room
    lets say you add a 4 lot.
    avg price is now 3003.4
    1 lot avg price is 3002.125
    so u have 2 points now or 7 ticks to loss.

    you have a cushion before being stopped out.
     
    #121     Jul 4, 2020
    Onra and comagnum like this.
  2. Sekiyo

    Sekiyo

    Lol

    Lol

    Lol

    & Welcome !
     
    #122     Jul 4, 2020
    ironchef likes this.
  3. yc47ib

    yc47ib

    I strongly recommend to really read Volpri’s thread in and out before commenting, especially if you are not consistently profitable yet. If you are, good for you.
     
    #123     Jul 4, 2020
  4. For me personally, it’s a very big profit to trade using stop loss.
     
    #124     Jul 4, 2020
  5. ironchef

    ironchef

    In your example:

    You scaled up. Your cost base was $3,003. Exited when market went to $3,100, you made $1,400.

    You averaged down. Your cost base was $2,997. Exited when the market went to $3,100, you made $2,600.

    You said scaling up is better??? o_O
     
    #125     Jul 4, 2020
  6. funny you didnt even consider the risk but thats typical if demo account traders
     
    #126     Jul 5, 2020
  7. again. volpri will never tell you or show you when he actually stops adding to a loser or what his max loss is or max position on a trade because he trades a demo acct and will just keep adding until the mkt turns. he also cherry picks his last 2 good entries before the mkt turns to make it look like those were his only entries.

    example. mkt is at 3000
    i am showing u a strategy in a chart demo or real. i buy 1 every 2 points. so droos from 3000 to 2980. 20 points. i only show u on a chart my last 3 buys at 2980 2982 and 2984. you dont realize or see where i started buying at 3000 even!! i just cut those out!! please dont average down. its terrible advice and press volpri to truly explain how or when he exits a trade at a loss or when he stops adding. no one can just keep adding forever. what a joke
     
    #127     Jul 5, 2020
  8. you needed a 20 point rally to get to 3010 and get those profits when adding to a loser. you only needed a 10 point rally to get 1400 in profit adding to a winner. that is the biggest difference. holding a 4 lot for the entire 20 point move or holding a 1 lot for 10 points and a 2 lot for 8 pts a 3 lot for 6 points and a 4 lot for what 3 or 4 points. thats the risk. the # of lots u have and how many points u must gain. if mkt fell 10 more points from 2990 it would be 2980
    1 lot risk is down 1000 dollars
    4 lot risk long at 2997 is17 points
    17x4lots×50= 3,400 loss

    1000 loss versus 3,400 keep thinking adding to losers is smart business. if trading is a business would you keep buying more things to sell that are losing more and more. one news blip and you are toast
     
    #128     Jul 5, 2020
    comagnum likes this.
  9. virtusa

    virtusa

    chef,

    you should compare the profit in relation to the risk, not just in absolute profit numbers.

    You should compare the results with taking the same risk.
    Let's say you want to risk $1400, that's the risk the loser took by averaging down.
    If you would take the other strategy and add when the markets move in your favor, you could, with the risk at $1400 make $3920 profit instead of $2600 (the averaging down result).
    The math: 1400/500*1400=3920.

    Here is the used data:
    loser ad = max risk was 1400
    winner ad max risk was 500
    loser add gain max was 2600
    winner add gain max was 1400
     
    #129     Jul 5, 2020
    ironchef likes this.
  10. d08

    d08

    I traded for years without any stops on my main system. Now I'm using stops, not so much to get better R/R but for psychological reasons, although I'm seeing slightly better returns as well. Covid stocks can easily move 50 or 100% nowadays intraday, that's too much if you're trading sizable positions.
    For index stuff, I still go without stops. Have to be mentally prepared for the worst case scenario.
     
    #130     Jul 5, 2020
    Sequoia1321 likes this.