Stealing from society

Discussion in 'Economics' started by morganist, Apr 18, 2010.

  1. This is something I think about from time to time. Not me in person but the Government. All the money it takes is some else's belonging. It is not something the Government has worked for or appreciates. It is something that someone else sacrificed their time to generate and they took the risk when producing it. The government made no effort or took any risk when the product was produced it simply took it without any justification other than it is the law.

    Why do people who work have responsibility to pay tax when a lot of the tax is used to prop up behaviour that is like putting a ransom on someone else's life. Think about benefits paid out to people with children they cannot support. Surely if they cannot support them it is their responsibility to not have children, that is not even taking into consideration the other affects on children that people who do not take responsibility for themselves create.

    Then there are other costs, wars, policing of people who commit crime because they have wants they cannot meet or to pay for their habbits they chose. Even the most addictive drug has to be used once for addiction, there must be some moral decision made when this happens it is their responsibility to themselves whether they receive funding for their habbit and should not be a burden on society when they commit crime to fund it.

    What about other person responsibilities like not getting into debt or living a lifestyle someone cannot afford. Why should people have to pay for these things when the people should be responsible themselves. There is a point where children are involved but why would parents have children they cannot afford or keep. Are they using their childrens lives as ransoms to the rest of society. Surely this is the worst crime that a human being can commit. To use the life of their own child to get their own selfish wants, not just some stranger or distant relative but their own child who they created and live and experience pain.

    Then there is the sustainability of this thievery. How can it continue when you work and have to pay halve of your wages there is no incentive. On top of that the Government is spending more money than they have. What will happen to these people who need this money when they have children they can't afford. This is not far away.

    Any thoughts.
  2. I agree that some taxes are very unjustifiable.

    However, in order for you to have anything that you have now (in the current day United States, for example), you probably could not have gotten it without:

    -Roads to get you to your job.
    -Clean and abundant drinking water.
    -Clean, fresh, abundant food.
    -Sanitation to protect you (such as sewage, etc).
    -Protection from people who will redefine what theft means to you.
    -Protection from many other hazards that could take your life (everything from police to enforce speeding to murderers and thugs).
    -An education that, for most who grow up in the US or the first world countries, is provided for by the government.

    The list goes on.

    The idea is to give back to the system that allowed you to obtain whatever wealth you have so that other people can have the same opportunity and chances that you had. Whether or not they capitalize on those opportunities is up to them. Emphasis on opportunity.

    At least, that's the idea. Does it always work? No. In general, has it at least somewhat done its job? Yes.
  3. Proper spelling and grammar would be appreciated, as well as some backing. I think he was asking for thoughts on the fairness of taxes, not on the existence of the Federal Reserve and the relation of the Fed to JFK's death.

    It's an interesting topic best left for another thread.
  4. pspr


    The federal government is out of control. For the first time in 200 years the people must take back the power from government and reduce it in size dramatically. The constitution provides for this regardless of how much it scares liberals like Bill Clinton.
  5. I have several thoughts. I don't mind paying taxes, plain old fashioned money, but I dislike the gov't requiring me to do things with no compensation.

    The first that annoys me in particular is when the gov't requires a company to place a recycling receptacle for used plastic bags (WMT for example).

    This is floor space I could use to sell goods, I pay utilities and property taxes and insurance for that 4 sq ft. I could use that space more productivly. The customer already took the bag home and now they are bringing it back for me to deal with.

    Secondly, It is unfair to ask employers to verify a human being is qualified to work in this country. I am not a policeman. I don't want to check documents and qualify legal or illegal workers.

    These are thefts of employers time and resources without compensation. We could be fined for refusing to do either.
  6. pupu


    Once you institutionalize something and have people go through the system from birth to death it's amazing what you can get away with.
  7. maxpi


    I guess the idea is that irresponsible people will do less damage if you support them with tax money and you are better off. The way it's working out though, they live in inner cities and you live in gate guarded communities... at least they do most of the damage in their own neighborhood...

    Among tribal peoples there always was a division between farmers and hunter-gatherers.. farmers worked much longer hours but they didn't starve in droughts. Our welfare communities are the hunter-gatherer redux, if the economy dries up really badly they will starve.

    Hmmmm... the best way to cope is to be a hunter-gatherer with the capability of doing some farming in a drought... hmmm, a nice steady welfare check, a little land along the river, some Marijuana plants to sell in good times, some square foot gardening for the bad times...... I knew that WIN = Work Is Nonprofit, I just knew it!!
  8. I would like to see a flat tax.
    Just one tax at 10% period ... 5% to states 5% to Federal

    No other taxes or fees whatsoever.
    If fees or tickets or whatever remains ... then every single cent goes to schools.

    Fail to budget your 5% ... get fired within 24 hours of the year end budget ... no exceptions ... period.

    Dismantle the IRS entirely except for the department to handle yearly forms.

    Every year during tax time tax forms are filled out but only to list preference where tax money is spent. [Roads schools etc.]

    Each government must use 1/2 of their budget as the people demand and can adjust the remaining budget where it decides.

    Nobody in governmental office gets special treatment for healthcare ...
    they get only the same retirement with the term they serve.
    They serve 1 term ... they get one term of pay as retirement or severance.
    Two terms ... two terms.

    Failure to honor what the people have voted for results in massive fines upwards of
    $250,000 for pressing issues opposite of public sentiment.

    Much like a speeding ticket. A citizens court is convened to see if the efforts to control the people were innocent or malevolent.

    Third strike for going against the voters = jail term plus fine.
  9. Its not really that hard to support children. They are not that expensive. The only reason people think they are expensive is because parents in this country are used to a certain standard of living for their children. At least 70% of all the children in the world do not use disposable diapers (might be alot more actually, but its at least 70%) In the US 99.9% of children get disposable diapers. In the US children are also used to getting lots lots of fancy clothes from the mall and paying on the very low end $3 for a shirt and up to $30 or $40 at baby gap, whereas in poorer countries they can make 10 very cheap outfits(made of cheap material) for about $1 (or 10 cents each) Children go without diapers or they have a cheap cloth diaper which costs 20 cents each. They buy about 10 or 20 of them and they can be used for years. As for food, kids in the US get expensive formula and it costs about $75-100 per month. Kids in poor countries get free breastmilk.

    So its really not that parents cant take care of them. Its that they cant take care of them at the standard of living that the majority of parents in the US can. Liberals in the US think a child is suffering if he doesnt have disposable diapers, formula, 20 sets of clothes, a room full of toys, electricity, and central heat & air. Somehow the kids in india seem to be growing up fine, getting good grades in school, and taking our jobs though.

    Dont get me wrong...I dont think a kid should not get those things if you can afford it...but if you have very little income, there is nothing wrong with buying a few towels at the dollar store and using them for diapers.

    But as long as the illusion that kids "need" more than they have is going, then the government is just going to keep taking your money and giving it to whoever they want to keep up that high standard of living.
  10. pspr


    Reminds me of a friend who bought a donut shop several years ago. Because he was a new owner he was required to spend thousands of dollars to build ramps, remodel the bathroom, etc., etc. to make everything "handicap accessible". The regulators didn't find it amusing when he said he would rather just put up a sign saying, "No Handicapped People Allowed".
    #10     Apr 18, 2010