For those familiair with candles they can distract you from the channels while bar charts are monotone and do not jump out and overpower the channels being drawn. Thus it makes sense that they are advocated for the learning stage and for those who are learning from scratch in a sense. Bars move the price to the background and let the channels jump out clearer. However candles are distracting for everyone not familiar with them. For me and many who use candles they are simply a reflection of what is happening in the price and they do not distract but provide info. For those who understand candles, they will not find it surprising that reversal patterns such as Dojis, Hammers, Inside Days and Engulfings occur at FTT and BO points which are turning/confirmation points in the trend. My advice is that becoming a better trader is not based on blindly following a methodical system but digging underneath the rules and methods for the theme of what is being analyzed and traded on. You need this higher level of study so that it makes sense as this is not an automated system a computer can blindly follow. Seeing the big picture is what allows you then to understand why something was down as it fits the bigger theme. Master the theme which is the Continent where the Forrest thrives in which the trees grow and you truly see the big picture. Understanding the big idea of the channels and points and what FTTs and BO imply along with volume helps you understand how to identify them better. With all great respect to Jack and Spyder's generous efforts, it is not enough to simply follow blindly a prescribed doctrine in the world of trading and hope to emulate Jack and Spyder's performance. Your individual experience, risk tolerance, discipline, emotional stability, and risk aversion will affect your trading decisions always. Even Ed Seykota in Market Wizards (I think it was him) made a comment that he could teach 1000 people his exact method and most of them will never trade like him. HERE IS THE POINT: This is not a system of how to draw trendlines which form channels and I did not come here to learn how to draw trendlines. Everybody knows how to draw a trendline - simply connect a series of points. This system appears to be about WHERE to draw the trendlines and channels in relation to the price movementsand how to interpret WHAT the price does in relation to those lines. The theme is WHERE to place the lines not HOW to draw them. If you do not step back to understand the theme of where the channels or placed or why they are placed that way, then you never gain the perspective needed to see the charts the right way. I am by no means a Market Wizard, but when I was lurking and reading old posts, all I was doing was looking for thei bigger picture of the system and what it was doing. Once I got a handle on thoat basic info, I then could put the specific discussions on channels and points and FTTs, etc in the right context and have them make sense. Many here try and break it down to the miniscule level of "How do I identify an FTT or BO?" If you see the bigger context then it becomes a little clearer as to when price is failing to traverse the channel you drew and thus not respecting the current trend it has established. I am by no means an expert here or trying to say I know it all and let me impart my wisodm. But starting on the bigger picture context before I dove in is what helped me only do this for 2 weeks and already see it translate to trading profits and a clearer vision of the daily price action even without diving into Gaussians yet lol. I am not there yet on consistency so don't get me wrong I am still in the learning phase and that is why I am still reading hundreds of pages of old posts. That is also why candlesticks or bar charts do not matter at all. If you do not see the bigger context of the approach or the importance of where you place the trendlines, then the type of chart is not going to help. Sorry for the long-winded post, but I think people have missed the intent of Spyder and Jack for people to also see the big picture and not just get overwhelmed with drawing lines and looking for clear cut signals. This is a Monet, up close it can look kind of blurry and formless, but if you step back you see a beautiful picture in the right context.
That is a bad assumption that a bar chart lets you see into the future but a candle does not. Both show OPEN HIGH LOW CLOSE in the same instant it happens but present it differently. If you "see" better with one, why would I ignore that lol. This candle v bar argument makes no sense in this thread. I do not push it but many here offer advice to get rid of it. The type of chart should make no difference if you know how to draw the channels. This is a system of seeing price action and candles help me see it clearer. Unless we can get into each other's head, we cannot say how we see something . I understand why bars are advised by Spyder, because you have enough to worry about without candles distracting you...... UNLESS candles are no distraction at all. And that is an individual decision perhaps... Do not be distracted by my use of candles . If there are those of you who are interested in candle use or do use candles, then you can PM me to keep that discussion out of this thread.
I believe this system is about how the 5 min bars form in relation to volume and other indicators we are yet to study imo. As I mentioned earlier, a 5 min reversal candle by it's nature is going to be too late to the party. But hey, to each his own....
We can all take a deep breather and relax. I have used bars both ways. I understand coach's point and understand jack's point and understand your point. But the bottom line is however you make money, that is the way to do it. It does not matter! If it easier to see it using candles, then that is the way to go. I admit, I am biased and candles work pretty darn well for NOW trading. SPIKEs stick out like a sore thumb with candles. Bars on the other hand due tend to demphasize the plot of the bars. If we pull up a daily bar chart of ES and pull up a daily candle chart of ES, the candle chart will seam to have more information. Give it a spin. The point here is to be yourself as a trader. Assimilate the knowledge, and apply it so that you are calibrated to be effective, not to be Mak, Spy, or Jack. Gentleman, as long as you are banging away bucks, you are ahead of the curve. For me, there is no one better form then the other, it's just a matter of what works for you... Using black candle bars don't work for me, but green ones do. Green line bars don't work for me, but black ones do. Use whatever works for you gentleman and take it to the bank since there is where it counts.
This is the 1 st Hour action on ES + Charts of advancing and declining issues on Nyse .....clearly after 20-30 min $ADV and $DECL synchronize...
I'm a beginner (about 2 months behind the thread) so I'm on the Forest Level but am watching for FTT's on that level of resolution. Correct me if I'm wrong but this looks like a good one this morning. No pt.3's on the forest level yet but maybe after this pt.3 channel trades lower, we'll reverse and go back up and make a pt. 3 for a short entry (just observing, not sim trading). <img src="http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1399614">
This is charts of 5 min and 30 min EUR/USD is obvious that the fastest 5 min fractal is leading the slowest 30 min....
Chart for the morning. Annotating was not hard but trading was. I was jumping in too quickly and was not half as patient as yesterday. Also the start was hard but it shouldn't be. It was an FTT followed by FBO on my chart. I definately should wait for bars to finish, especially at the start of the day because one moment it looks like this and another moment it looks different. regards, Ivo
DKM, I'm glad you mentioned that. I'm new so pardon my ignorance, but I was under the impression that there are tapes, pt.3's and channels made up of pt.3's. Isn't it only the later that is considered the "forest" view? I see the FTT's you're referring to but didn't think that as a beginner I was supposed to be operating on that level of resolution. Thanks.