Spydertrader's Futures thread

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by bundlemaker, Nov 6, 2007.

  1. Well, I'm not quite sure what to say. I'm posting here so as not to pollute the thread any further, but had to say something. I was called names and condescended upon. Mr. Spyder could only blame the pupil.

    Now, it seems his commitment (his stated promise) is beginning to crumble. 1 week into a 4 week period on actually executing trades and NOTHING. NADA! 25% of the time shot. He's leaving a bunch of people high and dry.

    Somehow he has enough time to post on Nascar in chit chat, but not deal with his committments. Months ago I suggested that the thread was not on course, and months ago (and repeatedly) I offered my full time assistance to create the needed teaching aids. I was repeatedly ignored.

    I'll have more to say later.
  2. nkhoi

    nkhoi Moderator

    I'm not quite sure what to say either, cmn posted 14 pics of actual trade executions and you call that nothing?
  3. Nk,

    nothing from the teacher. I actually found CNMS's post useful, but I have to question his understanding of the whole method, as his latest post on ftt's is way off base. Those 2 bars ARE ftt's based on Spydertrader's definition. Obviously DKM thinks so too.

    I took a ration of s*** from Spyder, being the "asshole", etc. With him it's always the students fault, impossible to be the teacher. You wanna explain how something as basic as picking out a FTT after the fact, by someone supposedly profitable, can be so far off base? Not a real good comprehension level in my estimation.

    Now, please understand, this doesn't mean CNMS is wrong. It's quite right for how he see's it. But it's obviously confusing others. So, are all the confused people at fault too, because they're not profitable?
  4. nkhoi

    nkhoi Moderator

    spyder already goes over that so no need for me to requote it here.
    you need to put everything into context to see it in the way that helps you to anticipate the next event.

    instead of homing in confusing people, how about concentrating on enlightening people, callmate, Steve Tvardek , real trades, real money. I think it's time to let confusing people fence off for themselves. You take care of yourself first before you can take care for others :D
  5. Hi bundle,

    I was going to PM you. but here seems an appropriate venue.

    I'm currently reviewing the Futures Journal from the start but also have started reading at the end of it in 'real time'.

    It seems you have been a major contributor (channels video for example) up until recently. Basically you seem like one of the good guys.

    As I move through the thread it also seems like you were getting AHA moments at steady intervals and really close to 'getting it'. I'm not sure what went on between you and Spyder but I can sense your frustration. All I wanted to say is don't abandon it all now! Take a deep breath and re-build your bridges and continue working on 'it'.

    Now it happens that I am inclined to think decide and act are every bit as important as monitor and analyse. In fact once you are 'adequate' or better at MA you can start knocking them down, IF you can make appropriate decisions and take appropriate actions. Anyway that's not really my point. As I say I can sense your frustration and can empathise, hope you manage to sort it out.

  6. This has been a fascinating journey. It will be equally fascinating to see how it plays out. The huge majority of participants will walk away with nothing but that, in no way, negates what Spyder has attempted to do.
  7. Bundle,

    I'm not sure how far you're into it or what fractal you're trying to trade.

    As for myself, I am just trying to accomplish trading the forest level. Not the bug level, leaf level, limb level, or any other level. This will give lots of room for error while still remaining insanely profitable.

    If you take a look at my auto-channels charts, I don't draw tapes, but rather "stick figure" lines showing traverses. For forest level trading, that's all I need to construct the pt.3 channels.

    The key basically is identifying FTTs. Trading the forest level lets you identify them late enough (with good confirmation) while still catching the meat of moves (channels).

    You actually helped me a lot with your video; the only advice I can really make at this point is to limit the information exposure. Concentrating just on pt. 3 channels and FTTs is more than good enough at this point.

  8. Rahula


    The way SCT is market is really no different than how most snake oil systems are marketed; some claims are as follows:

    * It's a 'perfect' system, works in any market, all the time.
    * Its a new paradigm.
    * Don't listen to the conventional orthodoxy.
    * If it doesn't work you're not doing it right.
    * If it doesn't work, its because of the flaws of the market - the system itself is flawless.
    * System produces no losses when followed correctly.
    * All experts earn more than 2-3X the daily range.

    Bundle's a smart guy and has worked hard on this but I can't feel sorry for him at all considering just about anyone with some common sense would appoach SCT very cautiously considering how it is marketed. I'm not saying SCT is snake oil and I'm sure there are guys that can make money using it everyday like Steve Tvardek - but those guys tailor the system to suit thier personality, their goals, their comfort zone etc. I used to trade the J.H. futures method and abandoned it because I feel its pretty useless to try to trade both trend and countertrend - I think you either master one strategy or the other and if you try to master both you end up mastering none. For example, the FTT entry signal is a countrend signal and the RTL is a trend signal in the J.H. method. In the long run its extremely hard to master trading both trend and countertrend because both strategies require totally different mind sets which can lead to confusion and at times you can lose on both sides. Furthermore the more you trade intraday, the more impulsive your trading is at risk in becoming - thus jeapordizing your chances of becoming a great fund manager which is what ever trader should aspire to.
    I'm not aware of any market wizard or trader managing billions trading in any other way other than the principals of classical trading/investing or arbitrage - textbook CW stuff. You don't need to reinvent the wheel or follow a "new paradigm" to make money consistantly as a trader.
  9. WD40


    One of you has a problem.
  10. Let's address these points one by one and see where we end up. My responses are in blue.

    Nobody is marketing SCT. It is offered free to anyone who cares to do the work. The only investment therefore is your own time. How you value your time is up to you. It does not take long to see the potential in this method and if you don't see it you can quickly move on to other methods which suit you better.

    It works because in some respects it is the market. In learning SCT you are learning the steps to the dance. If the music is too fast or you can't hear the melody, you sideline. In time you learn to anticipate finer moves.

    Not really sure where you get that from. It is a different paradigm, but the essence of the market wisdom contained within SCT has not changed for decades / centuries.

    CO is essentially about discipline, respecting stops etc. It is about taking small losses and setting arbitrary targets. Using limit orders. Guessing R/R numbers, assigning probabilities to future events.

    In short, a large part of CO is sub-optimal, illogical and non-scientific.

    There is nothing for it to do - it just is. What is left is a trader who takes timely actions. He takes responsibility for these actions.

    Not sure I follow you - the market is always right.

    Individual trades may be small losers before you reverse back onto the right side. In aggregate, over the course of a trading session be it 2 hours or a day you will be ahead if you take timely action to switch back to the right side.

    Where it can go wrong is if the trader for whatever reason is unable or unwilling to take the necessary timely action.

    Some may, but many more are content with less. Why fixate on the upper end of what is possible when 0.2, 0.5 or 1.0x the range is already very achievable?

    Have you thought of learning SCT with the objective of using size rather than range to make the money you need?

    No one is forcing you to learn SCT. No one is forcing you to trade for 6.5 hours solid every day. No one is forcing you to make multiples of the range. No one is forcing you to make more money than you know what to do with.

    Why do you say it is marketed? Show me who is asking for money. Otherwise I can only assume you are talking out of your arse. :D

    Oh, sorry that took me by surprise given everything you have said up to now. So what are you saying exactly?

    Hah! Steve is always cited by those who are on the fence re. SCT, presumably because he has credibility in your world. Listen man, there are so many more traders out there who are using this every day (and paying it forward - freely sharing their knowledge - by the way).

    Sounds like a sensible approach to take!

    Clearly you failed. Therefore SCT is at fault. No other possible explanation. QED.

    Honestly, read that last paragraph back to yourself and try to see how it sounds to an objective observer.

    What are you on about? SCT is about differentiating between continuation and change on your chosen fractal (timeframe, essentially). Channels overlap. If there is confusion it is because the market hasn't yet decided which way it is going!

    Speak for yourself, do not assume that this problem afflicts other traders.


    Man you are so lost I feel sorry for you (which at least gave me the impetus to write this reply, which may be of benefit to others - I hope so).

    #10     Nov 17, 2007