SPX Credit Spread Trader

Discussion in 'Journals' started by El OchoCinco, May 17, 2005.

  1. I agree with momoney's thoughtful reply. I do NOT trade the OEX but I agree the time for adjustment has past. Either hold on for the ride...because by most technical indicators the mkt is heading lower over the next couple of weeks. Or close. If the market does head lower in the next few days and you are able to get out for BE it sounds like that is what you are leaning toward and nothing is wrong with that. However to adjust with 2X the number of options and greater risk for only a BE point is imo the worst choice. GL

    this is to wonton
     
    #5801     Apr 28, 2006
  2. wonton,

    you are in a difficult situation but i am sure you are already aware of that. My advice would be dependent on your position size or moreso on the % of port risked in this position.

    If its a big chunk, i'd just cut my losses today and move on. Then i'd really readjust my strategy since being this close with no adjustment or more like late adjustment and risking a big chunk of port will only take you out one of the next times this hapens.

    If its a small position then i'd probably let it ride and take my chances with a potential drop fully understanding that it may not come.

    Good luck.
     
    #5802     Apr 28, 2006
  3. wonton

    wonton

    Hello Momoney, Donna, Rally:

    Thanks for all your helpful thoughts.

    My exit strategies were squishy and I'm now getting squished.

    I realized last night that if I wanted to roll up and double up which some people suggest, I would have needed to do 1/2 of my position up front to do it.

    I am market neutral and I have four ICs on and OEX is 1/4 of the total.

    What exit strategies does everyone use?

    MoMoney: it looks like you use a certain threshold....could you share your thresholds? I am unsure about what you mean by marked to market? Does it mean the current exit price?

    I have toyed with:

    at the short strike
    1% away from the short strike
    2% from the short strike
    double the credit
    triple the credit
    triple the credit > three weeks out AND double the credit < three weeks out

    In the OEX trade, I put it on and OEX ran up 12 points in the next 1 1/2 trading days.....

    Dan Sheridan recommends when you put one on and it runs straight up right away, you just get out immediately.

    I have had the most heartburn over trades on OEX. I find that I have to put OEX trades closer than RUT or SPX to suit my personality. I think that because OEX doesn't have a Friday AM settlement "surprise", there may be less premium in it and therefore you need to get closer than SPX for the same credits.

    Thanks again to all for your input.

    Wonton
     
    #5803     Apr 28, 2006
  4. piccon

    piccon

    I have made most of my money in OEX but this month I stay away

    1) Because the premium was not acceptable for the strike I wanted.

    2) For the same premium, I could go 35 points away for SPX

    3) Coach told me to reduce my exposure and I listened


    I look at OEX as a momentum paly; If TA tells me it's overbought, I can play it for 1 week and get out but not for a month.

    Good luck anyway.

     
    #5804     Apr 28, 2006
  5. I like the terminology :)

    It depends on the risk/reward and size of the initial position.

    For a wide IC such as yours I would normally just play the probabilities and let it run as the trade is essentially a probability bet in the first place...but it's easier to do this when your position size is small (say, <3% portfolio) and the rest of your portfolio combined inherently hedges your IC.

    Otherwise, looking at the marked to market (running PnL of the spread) - when that reaches a paper loss equal to the max profit potential of the spread, that could be a good time to close the position. It's a simple mechanical stop loss strategy. You are probably well beyond that point already on your current position though.

    Using the running PnL approach also lets you get out of the way quickly if the spread moves against you fast in the early stages. It's a more mechanical way of dealing with the subjective approach suggested by Dan Sheridan.

    You can use the % or fixed points away approach but both of those don't take time to expiration and volatility etc. into account IMO.

    Have a search through this thread to review other approaches. It's a question that comes up every other day. You can recognise the posts because they start like this: "I've been following this thread for.....just put on some positions....any tips on when to hedge/adjust?" LOL :D

    Be warned, my opinions are in the minority and I'm certainly no expert. Make sure you hear from at least one other person!

    Sounds like a plan. He should know.

    There is definitely a small window of opportunity with the XEO (I don't trade OEX) for wide ICs or FOTM credit spreads but if you are able to hit that window I believe you can get better risk/reward for the same probabilities compared with the SPX.

    Once again good luck and prosperous trading.

    MoMoney.
     
    #5805     Apr 28, 2006
  6. Perhaps you should also rethink your entries and try to enter at resistance/support which means sometimes give up some premium while you wait but well worth it in my experience if you use strikes close to the market.
     
    #5806     Apr 28, 2006
  7. Coach, can you tell him to give me his money.

     
    #5807     Apr 28, 2006
  8. Agreed. My worst trades are those that I rush into while trying to capture that little bit of premium that theta is stealing from me each day.
     
    #5808     Apr 28, 2006
  9. wonton

    wonton

    Hi Rally and Cache:

    If you talk about support and resistance, it sounds like you leg into your ICs?

    I have tried both ways (puts and calls on seperately, whole IC on at once).

    It would have been much better to just put puts on 4/17....seems like some support there.

    It can be catch 22, however. I would have been golden if I had put just puts on 4/17 and on 4/18-19 just calls.

    But it's a tradeoff because if you are wrong, then you don't have theta working for you on the other side.
     
    #5809     Apr 28, 2006
  10. piccon

    piccon

    I found out that OEX needs to be traded at Resistance and Support in order to get good premium and be safe at the same time. IC on OEX is not that smart. Enter your call side at overbought and be patient because the market will come back down one way or another; enter your Bull Put at Oversold condition.

    This way you will always make money in OEX. That's the way I traded it.

    Sometimes I will wait 2 or 3 days before expiration and put and IC completely. Ex: market at 596, I will try to do 590/585 and 600/605. But just for 2 or 3 days before expiration

     
    #5810     Apr 28, 2006