SPX Credit Spread Trader

Discussion in 'Journals' started by El OchoCinco, May 17, 2005.

  1. jeffm

    jeffm

    I had both naked calls and credit spreads on ER2 (RUT futs). My only ES calls were in an OCT1375/NOV1400 diagonal. Unfortunately, the ES diag was a small position, since ES closed today at 1375 :)

    On ER2, I had Oct call shorts (some naked, some spread) at 760, 770 and 775. Most were entered in mid to late Sept. After the big up day near the first of the month, the market looked too strong for my taste. I started scaling out of the calls anytime I could take them off near b/e. I got about 80% of my position closed. My final batch of 770 calls were closed last week for a loss of 3 points each. The call loss was about equal to the gain on my puts, which was itself a smaller than normal position since the market never dropped enough for me to enter at what I considered a good level.

    Of course, ER2 closed today below 770. And if I let that fact impact my decision making in the future, I deserve the additional losses I will take using the "hold and pray" method of risk control :)

     
    #11341     Oct 20, 2006
  2. I am trying to type fast so credits/debits are intertwined lol.... Also long day of writing and baby. Also, I put this on as a fun test of the cross Flys and an expectation of a large GOOG move to help me and would not think of using it in this way consistently.

    It was a directional bet for me so that is all I really cared about in all honesty for GOOG. Lazy on my part no doubt. Were 3 other strategies a better way to play it? I am quite sure. But I wanted to test this one even if it was a bet. So to be fair I really did not model it in detail for a non-move in the middle, I just put it on the risk graph to see the profit at the ends at OCT expriat. If the $2,250 gain was pure luck then I am fine with that ;).

    With OptionVue I can model it better than with ToS.

    Again it was a fun bet and I should have not even mentioned it because it led to a discussion off tangent from its use on the SPX where we are not dealing with the same IV crush and where I really intend to use it. For SPX, that is less of an issue. Even with a slightl skew the IV differences have not shown up as significant yet.

    Anyway, thanks for all the input guys and I will be more controlled in the future. My fun trades create way too many tangents on this thread and it takes a lot to find the actual trades on SPX buried in all t his lol. (except for Mo, he can find anything)

    Sorry guys!


    EDIT: here is the actual prices from TOS to close both Flies if GOOG went nowhere using the strikes you suggsted. Assuming ToS is correct it would have been a tiny debit to close out and still small harm. So $4.50 profit and if it went nowwhere about $2.00 loss. If ToS is right, not bad R/R overall even with the IV crush. Assuming ToS has it right in the pricing.:

    [​IMG]




     
    #11342     Oct 20, 2006
  3. Phil, you shouldnt change your ways just because of what transpired today. We are all adults here and last time i checked this was your thread so post whatever trades you want. Maybe it's me but today was actually quite entertaining :p

    Truth be told, i actually like the cross month fly on the ES/EW. In my opinion, it will outperform the FOTM verticals or diagonals over a large sample if you find a reliable way to select strikes. Should certainly make for better sleep at night and more quality time with your family. I am a big fan of muted bets so keep us posted on your ES/EW cross month flies.
     
    #11343     Oct 21, 2006
  4. rdemyan, my 2 cents in response to your three points in reverse order since that's how I see their importance:

    3) I'm certain that your performance will improve dramatically once you grasp technical analysis. It's been posted here that to make these trades work, you have to be right on direction or volatility. THe TOS probability play may work for CTM credit spreads but for ultra low R/R like these far OTM spreads, you've got to understand TA.

    2) I never roll up my endangered call spread into the same month. I offset, and if I roll, it's to the next month.

    1) I think your fear of black swans are killing your trading. Remember, over the years, the US markets have a clear upward bias and you're esentially riding against the tide by focusing exclusively on call spreads.

    I hope you don't give up on credit spreads. Just try and improve your approach. And oh, use some of the credit to put some hedges on -- not when you need them (that's too late) but when you put on the spread itself.




     
    #11344     Oct 21, 2006
  5. rdemyan

    rdemyan

    Thanks, Andy:

    I agree with all your points and am planning to add hedges early.

    The only difference at this point is that I'm becoming more partial to the diagonals on the put side as opposed to verticals.

    We'll see how it goes.

    EDIT: Good to see you posting again.

     
    #11345     Oct 21, 2006
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    #11346     Oct 21, 2006
  7. rdemyan

    rdemyan

    Mark:

    Diagonals or verticals on the recent trades?

     
    #11347     Oct 21, 2006
  8. Since I paid my tuition yesterday, I am trying to learn a lot from it.

    I don't want to lose the big 1-day time premium for closing earlier. Can I do something like this:

    1. Buy the same # of contracts for the corresponding future at Friday's open (assuming open price is very close to set)
    2. Sell the future and your long leg at the same time on Monday.

    The margin requirement for future is very low, and it only requires me to reserve a very small amount of capital.

    Can anyone see a big risk for this approach? (I understand the open and the set prices might be different, but i assume the difference should be small on average.)
     
    #11348     Oct 21, 2006
  9. Mark,

    Do you have a long leg with each short? Does your selection of short strikes depend on your long strike too?
     
    #11349     Oct 21, 2006
  10. Rally:

    What would have happened to your double calendar if GOOG stayed flat and IV dropped? I think you said you sold it for $14 and it was worth $9 after the news and move. Since it was a credit spread combo, do you have an idea what the cost to close would have been.

    It seems an interesting way to play any pumped up IV stock with news expected but curious as to your experience on the risk side.

     
    #11350     Oct 22, 2006