I wonder if there is a lesson to be learned from their professionalism. I cant imagine them getting into a playground slanging match to justify themselves. Bone, come on, your have customers, you can walk into any prop shop and sell your stuff to guys(apparently), why do you put yourself through this?
Probably because he's not used to marketing and having a public profile. Most traders are private, they are inexperienced with PR. I agree it's a bad idea to get into extended arguments with haters. Just do your thing, show statements & references to serious clients who ask, and ignore anonymous trolls on internet message boards. It's not like any of these guys it going to hire him, so it's a waste of oxygen talking with them.
regulators were outraged by the $100 million pay package that Citigroup had been obliged to pay Hall, Phibro's star trader
Boring couple of days in the markets. Regarding Andrew Hall's May drawdown of 10%; that's not particularly noteworthy in the world of private equity energy investment pools. When John Arnold started Centaurus he frankly had a much bumpier ride that Andrew Hall by all accounts. Hall has probably been fortunate IMO given the modest vols in the gas and crude calendars and the distillate cracks. Ask Brian Hunter about that Winter/Spring Gas Cal widow-maker. John Arnold had the other side of that one BTW.
$6,000 minimum. That is the charge, I believe for a service that steadfastly refuses serious independent proof, and flames anyone who has the nerve to ask. Funny, that is the only question that really matters, and it is avoided like a gazelle trying to get away from a cheetah. The ACCOUNT balance depends on how much you wish to lose on the fact that 99% of these "gurus" have no RAR outperformance value.
Bankroll is entirely dependent on the client - I have independent clients clearing IB with $20K and I have independent clients clearing NewEdge which requires a minimum $3M initial account balance. I have European prop clients clearing Schneider and I have Australian prop clients with Silk Road clearing MF... I have CTAs and hedge fund clients, it's just all over the map. Time-to-Live Trade is also entirely dependent on the client. I still trade quite a bit personally, so I keep a controlled number of clients and I rotate them through the program at fixed intervals. They all start out training with me personally on a one-to-one basis with the modeling tools and the trading system procedures, and then when a certain competency threshold is met they start paper trading with me. During the paper trading process with me they are getting very consistent feedback from me with respect to the the model trading signals, the profit targets, and the stop/loss targets. Again, when they reach a consistent competency level I clear them for live trading if they choose. At that stage in the training, I will also start to teach them how to construct their own spread combinations and make modeling adjustments. Let me explain the term "paper trading" as it relates to me and my clients at least - as soon as they get a trading signal they provide me with a few model specifics, the market, the price level, and their profit and stop/loss levels via email. In that way I'm able to give them feedback, and the email notification gets tracked and trended by me. Once they close out the trade, they also notify me. So, in terms of the training and feedback process for the model and the trading system there is definite accountability and a progression to things. Time-to-Live Trade can be somewhat abbreviated with experienced professional traders; for example, I took on a Chicago CTA as a client two months ago, and he started trading live last week. For example, during August, 3 clients who started in June had the following Win-Loss records paper trading with me: DS: 39W, 11L, 9S CL: 41W, 32L MH: 16W, 7L, 1S As these clients get more confidence and experience, we start talking about legging spreads in the live market and I'm able to show them my live market order books and if they are using TT or PatSystems or CTS I can help them set up their execution platforms. We also put together a starting portfolio of trade combinations to use in the scanner and charting packages. The starting portfolio includes a position sizing and capital allocation plan. I have one client at the moment who is currently practicing legging yield curve spreads on the TT Sim environment. So, everything is pretty much client-dependent in terms of capitalization and to some extent Time-to-Live-Market trading time horizons. Generally speaking, I like to see my clients in the 58-65% Win-Loss ratio percentages before I would recommend that they're ready to risk capital in the live marketplace.
You do realize that focusing on win percentage is what newbie traders obsess about??? Experienced traders use things like "expectancy, drawdown analysis, sortino, etc. etc." it is called Risk Adjusted Reward. Have you ever heard of this??? Is that why you avoid discussing or evidencing your own trading performance? Your signature/advertising currently says this: Now providing custom charting studies and proprietary market signal scanning software to clients. Spread, Relative Value, and Correlation Trading Instruction from a Professional Trader with a commercial and speculative track record spanning 18 consecutive profitable years. A number of my clients are making money in these markets, and serious prospects can independently verify my value with existing clients. Extensive due diligence materials are provided to serious applicants. You do realize, that claiming a track record of 18 consecutive profitable years, which borders on the noncompliance of using "hypothetical" means that if you cannot PROVE it and since you STEADFASTLY IGNORE requests for such proof, you could be in serious trouble? Or do you not run your claims by paid legal service? So I am asking you directly and clearly AGAIN (and AGAIN and AGAIN). Post your 18 year track record of your personal trading and show us proof of your claim (and remember, buy and hold is not TRADING.)
You do relaize request from a random message board poster means dick. Im pretty sure there is no law on the books that says you have to deliver account statements on any messageboard it is requested on. Im certain he in no danger. All you cocks already have your minds made up, in your head he is a fraud who cant trade anything beyond stocks mentioned in the Lightning Round, why would he provide any proof? Would you change your opinion of him if he did? Would you apologize? Maybe "Spread Professor" services could dissapear forever and he would be just fine because he can in fact make meaningful profits in the market. None of this is that important to him. Why again should go out of his way to prove something to a group of anonymous fools who already made up their mind about him? Are any of his clients (past and present) complaining about his service? Are there threads on various message boards made by burned victims slamming his methodologies, as is the case with most gurus? Does he have a bunch of silly youtube videos selling hopes and dreams of endless daytrading profits? Is he always touting his "trading room"? Is he blabbering on and on about his proprietary moving averages? ARE THERE ANY FUCKING COMPLAINTS FILED WITH THE CFTC OR BBB AGAINST HIM?? How many of you detractors are willing to post your account statements online? Prove that you are even worth his time. So many are quick to call him a fraud without anything to back their claims up other than messageboard bravado, that is slander and its no better than making fraudulent claims of system profitability. Nobody is making anybody sign up for and pay for anything. I would describe his marketing as "passive" at best. AND HAVE EVEN ONE OF YOU, FOR ONE SECOND CONTEMPLATED, maybe he chooses to teach his method because breaking it down step-by-step and helping others trade his method in turn helps him refine and evolve his own trading? No, Im not a shill, a client, or an alias of Bone. Never even spoken with the guy. You are a just a bunch of cynical fucks projecting your own bad attitudes on someone who doest derserve it. Wannabegurus and phonies all march to the same beat in this game, Bone is one of the few teachers who comes across as someone who might have an interesting point of view to share. And you tear him down, why? He made a post or two you didnt agree with about bonds? He does things different than you think they should be done? He claims to be successful? You all sound like a bunch of bitter wannabes who hate winners.
I guess you chose not to read the section above where he mentioned going over "model specifics, the market, the price level, and their profit and stop/loss levels" with clients. Winning percentage is part of evaluating performance, you cant determine your risk adjusted return without it. I swear, this is a fucking message board, he doesnt have to spell every detail of his model out in every post. You are crucifying this dude over splitting hairs it seems.
If he could really make money in the markets, do you think he would choose to fight and beg people to give him money? Why not start a trading group like the turtles? There are so many things that a truely successful trader can do, I'm not sure why one would choose to fight on a message board.