Highly edited and redacted anonymous client testimonials with no five years of trading statements or tax returns or live calls. According to the trolls all of these courses must be, by default, scams and snake oil. Same for Dr. Chan and NTU-SGX going by the same troll logic. The courses look worthwhile to me - great links and thanks for sharing, RR. Good stuff.
I only had a cursory look at the websites or their reviews. Most of the testimonials seem to be praising course presentation and delivery. I didn't see any claims of profitability on their site. I do agree that the testimonials are cherry picked marketing hype. The courses are no better or worse than any trading education product. Ultimately, the onus is on the trader.
Well, I completely agree with your point that a client is going to get out of a very good training system what he puts into it. If it's a crap deliverable to begin with from the vendor's side, then you can put 500 hours into it and just walk away disenchanted and frustrated. And you get that theme from the ET members who are clients of mine and who were brave enough to post about it at the start of this thread - the successful ones are really putting in a great deal of time and effort. In fact, I frequently extend contract terms gratis in order to make sure that the client gets what he needs and wants out of the program. Happy, successful clients are my greatest advertising. So, it is completely true - if it's a good program that you know for a fact other clients have and are making money using the system, then you will get out of it what you put into it and that the client needs to have the courage to hold himself accountable and to be honest about how dedicated he was or will be in terms of putting in the work.
"If the system is any good, nobody would sell it." An old adage that is thrown around on ET for good reason. It just doesn't make any economic sense to give away a profitable system for a few thousand dollars. The best a vendor will do is give guiding principles and a little tradecraft. Even if an edge is given away, it will be quickly made worthless once a large group of traders starts using it. I hope everybody on ET (including myself) keeps this in mind.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHY YOU NEVER SEE ANY OF THE SUCCESFUL TRADERS OR FUNDS SELLING COURSES .... EVER SEEN PAUL TUDOR JONES OFFERING A CRASH COURSE TRADING THE SPOOS ???? OR GEORGE SOROS OFFERING A COURSE TRADING CURRENCIES ; " LEARN HOW TO BREAK THE BRITISH POUND IN 5 MINUTES"
Lol Peternam. You are so right. I think of most unsuccessful traders as if they are lost at sea without potable water. They will become so desperate and thirsty that they eventually contemplate drinking seawater even though it will poison them.
RockMachine: At the risk of voiding my contract with Bone, I wanted to give an unbiased opinion of Spreadprofessor's service. 1. The price is high = yes. However, as stated Bone ONLY wants experienced traders. Well, experienced traders are MUCH harder to train because you have to un-train them first. New clients after a few weeks/months are encouraged to post their trade setups. Often, they show head and shoulder and archaic setups with multiple squiggly lines, etc. Myself, I had a nasty habit of placing tight stops, which every few months I revert to. Point is, Bone didn't teach this stuff. 2. The Guy really cares = Hell Yes! I'm on my 10th month of a 6month contract. Why? because I'm not ready. But to be clear, I contribute and I want it! 3. The $500k trade issue = Don't know. Semantics wise, if I were to make x$ in say the "Crack spread" for 2013, I would phrase it " I made X$ trading the Crack Spread last year. " 4. Is this the Turtle Experiment = Kinda. Richard Dennis said that he could publish his strategy in print and MOST people would lose money. In fact his original group has some who prospered and others who crashed. Weakest link is always the trader. 5. Overall, Bone's experience and knowledge of spread trading in 2014 is easily top 10,5,3 in the world. However, if you trade automated by ticks and turnover 100's of trades per day, then you will need to be un-trained, unless of course your infrastructure budget can compete with the big boys. 6. Finally, I have met and worked with a few people on ET, some were good, others would eat their children for $500..YOU KNOW who you are.. As for Bone, he's legit and cares and is very cautious as to working with the right people and especially before he lets you trade live. Eudamonia: As a current client I made my decision regarding Bone's services based on discussions with his references (former clients). Were they able to apply what Bone taught them and derive an edge? And the answer to that was yes - although it would require a lot of work on my part to learn the system (hence why it is a 6+ month contract). Currently, after four months of simulated trading I'm sitting on a 70% win ratio with a 1:1 reward to risk. Several other traders have shown their results in our trading room of their own trading that is similar or in some cases better. After a few more months I will switch over to live and anticipate I'll see similar results in a live account (because I have accounted for commissions and slippage in my estimates). I don't believe that my $7,500 has been anything but an excellent investment and highly recommend Bone's services. R1234: I signed up with spread professor last year. When I first signed up I must admit I was a bit concerned it might be a waste of money or maybe even a scam. But as I began adding his method to my existing methods I can say it does add value and I have more than made back my investment. His method is legit if used consistently and does carry an edge. J:Law: For all the naysayers & harsh critics of Bone & his spreadprofessor services....not only are his offers legitimate & sound. His ethics compass is intact & oriented in the right direction. If you are on the fence about working with him, just know that he has his feet on the ground & you will walk away from the experience with a greater knowledge of futures, spreading & tradecraft in general.
The onus is on the trader. It is the trader's responsibility to become profitable. I actually think we are in agreement bone. You provide an introduction to spreading, some guidance on how to get good fills, trade execution and the rest is up to the trader. Some of your traders will become profitable, some will not. It is up to them.
That was ridiculous. I still don't know why bone would misrepresent his client's employer. It is a bold faced lie that would eventually surface. Redacting the webpage, using a customer to verify dodgy claims of profitability, presenting paper trading profits as real profits...all unnecessary. If he was candid and just said what he is saying now, I think his results would be even better. The course is an intro to spread trading which offers no guarantees of profitability. And as bone has said repeatedly, the onus is on the trader. The trader has to come up with the appropriate spreads, execute and manage the risk.