I do have some clients who trade crack spreads. Like my other successful clients, they took full advantage of the contract term in its entirety before they even considered going live. One of those clients, T.H., came to me as a SFE Bills Spreader and now he's on the Goldman Sachs Singapore Energy Desk. He came on four months prior to you. And he took his time learning it all. Lots if evening Skype time with me from Australia. It's just a huge mistake to rush and force things, and I'm positive I made that point clear to you. I wish you the best in your life, Pete.
you now sound like every salesman ive ever met. call me psychotic and then wish me the best? thats even richer than you must be. And i think i spoke to T.H. before i started. someone in australia at least - i remember him saying he didn't use your entry system at all. dude, you're smart...but you twist things.
I'm not twisting anything - you sound confused to me. You spoke to T.H. before you hired me as part of your due diligence, he told you that there was a part of my system he chose not to use, but you chose to hire me despite that. It sounds to me that in speaking independently with some client references during due diligence that they were very forthright and candid with you. Must have had an impression favorable enough overall for you to make the choice to hire me. I know for a fact that I made absolutely no performance claims to you. And this is exactly why I dont - I have absolutely no control over what a client chooses to do in the live market, and I have absolutely no way of being assured that a client is going to follow through with his training or follow any of my advice. How do you account for all the positive experiences documented by clients brave enough to venture into this cesspool and express ? Do you claim them to be liars or paid salesmen ?
Also, is it so crazy to decide to trade energy spreads when that is your primary area of expertise? I mean, you act like I was insubordinate. Your energy market knowledge versus your equity knowledge is next level. As a client, early on, I had to decipher that. You hooked me up with another client who was already live trading energy spreads. I watched the lower vol markets and made trades in those as well. You've pigeon-holed me into seeming incapable, but really this shit isn't rocket science, especially with exchange traded spreads. I understand your system, and I think it has value, but when you accuse me of "not doing work" or not f'ing contributing - remember i paid you. I think the crack markets were fine initially, as they had been for awhile. Then the daily range expanded and changed the risk reward. That all sort of happened when I was trading. Ever happened to you? Takes a bit to figure it out. I didn't lose that much money, like $6k total. Then I stopped trading for awhile to deal with personal issues and to quit losing money. I didn't blowup my account. Had bad relationships, got depressed, didn't trade, spent savings, then spent the rest of trading account money. Then got a job. Pretty psychotic. I don't really give a shit about trading right now, but when I started reading comments indicating you didn't know shit about equity pairs (after you had been called out), I had near-flashbacks to your condescending conversations which seemed to indicate otherwise. And it verified something - not necessarily that your system doesn't work - but that you shape shift. Why would I care what another client thinks of you at this point? I've had my own experience. And I question your claims of seemingly endless profitability. Not your clients. Yours. So whatever, I think I'll re-read Secrets of Professional Turf Betting and hit the track with my $40. Maybe I'll write a screenplay about you and Don Bright adopting a child...
Well, during that extended time period I improved your contract term twice and begged you to meet with me every week and work through the trading issues together. You promised to. And you scheduled one meeting with me - which I recorded. I kept sending you meeting notes from other clients and group meeting notes and more reference materials for some time after that - but I never received a response or acknowledgement in return from you. Patrick, I tried everything I could to connect with you over a very extended period of time. I could have just said " well, your six months is up, pack sand". I did have a great deal of empathy for you. Then you fall off the face of the earth and I don't hear anything from you for a very long time. Then, one day out of the blue, you email me telling me that you had spent all your money and that you were on hard times, and that you wanted me to refund your fee - which I refused to do. Now, five years later, you are complaining about "flashbacks" and you feel short-changed. Have things evolved with the training as markets evolve ? Yes. Have more materials been developed, the indicator package built out further and more webinars recorded ? Oh hell yes. And yesterday I offered it all to you gratis, and you refused. Gigabytes of materials that current clients are paying $3K more for than you did. Hell, there are trolls who are PM'ing the clients who spoke out at the beginning of this thread asking if the client would secretly sell them the materials and teach them for a couple thousand dollars. No, it wasn't wrong of you to trade energy because you knew, after all, that I was and am good at it. I get that. What WAS wrong, however, was for you to ignore my strong advice NOT to start live trading until you had completed your instruction and worked with me long enough to develop those skill sets. Quite honestly, I'm impressed that you were trading crack spreads and only lost $6K.
I think I just didn't like dealing with you after awhile. Bad taste in my mouth. Just like now. I avoid shape shifters like the plague. My skill sets were less the problem than ranges changing risk reward from 1:2 to 1:1 in those markets at that time. I appreciate your earlier offer but how helpful are new materials when I'm broke? Have you seen the cost of printer ink? But yeah, thanks. The thought of a "built-out indicator package" sure makes me think twice; should email that bitch to your boy at goldman - see what he thinks now.
So here's my take-away after re-viewing a bunch of info: if bone did make 500k in 2006, it would most likely have been trading intraday cracks. In fact, a huge portion of info sent to me BEFORE executing my contract regarded intraday energy spreading. I wonder where I got the idea? It now seems like his "system" no longer works intraday, especially with crack markets, so he preaches a longer timeframe while trying to convince everyone that I was an outlier. Why hook me up with a client trading live crack markets then? Lots of clients were trading intraday cracks when I started. Why send emails talking about the RBOB crack being one of the best performers? (2010). Where are all of these clients from my era who are apparently so profitable? I'm called psychotic by someone I gave, at the time, $6500. At some point I lost confidence in all of it and quit trading. Regardless of my personal issues, that seems prudent and sane. This talk about me not doing the work, etc. Is bullshit. It seems more like I was trading markets that had once been favorable and that then experienced a catastrophic drawdown with this system. Pete, what are your runs like from 2006 to now? Mostly a series of cashed checks for $7500? Sup? Anyone care to comment?
Bone wrote: Which I have never pushed on any of my clients. In fact, I discourage it and I have an extensive track record here on ET of doing so in terms of spread trading. And I would NEVER encourage someone so modestly capitalized and "on the edge" to scalp Crack Spreads intraday. From spreadprofessor website: Feedback from MH on 03-02-2011 re: his first day of live trading: Anyway, I finally traded today for the first time. Had a great day. 6 trades, 5 winners. +$3,575 for the day. 5 trades in the gasoil crack spread, and one in gold/silver.