Spread trading with Rithmic

Discussion in 'Retail Brokers' started by heispark, Feb 14, 2023.

  1. BAT31

    BAT31

    Interactive Brokers can handle spreads. In fact, they provide access to exchange-traded spreads. However, there is one goofy quirk-- they list spreads backwards.

    For example, a normal spread is considered NGK4-NGZ3. And a reverse calendar spread is NGK3-NGZ4.

    It's a little confusing at first. One just needs to remember that if you want to open a position based on the front month, you need to put on a reverse calendar spread.
     
    #11     Feb 15, 2023
    6wives likes this.
  2. DanB65

    DanB65

    It looks like there are 2 issues here and 1 item to consider.

    1. If you have auto-liquidation enabled, and a bad tick is put out by the exchange that triggers the liquidation criteria, Rithmic will submit a liquidating order. That is not a fault of Rithmic. Some of the contracts you are trading are pretty thin. NGZ4 has a volume of 420 on Globex. Overnight the book will get pretty sparse. People will toss out BS bid/asks and that can screw with auto-liquidation.

    2. You say you did not have on the spread that was liquidated. That will likely be a function of how your SOD positions are managed by your FCM and therefore sent to Rithmic. I would ask the FCM to confirm what was sent.

    The consideration. Either you, your IB, or the FCM requested auto-liquidation be turned on. If you move to another system and you want auto-liquidation, it may not have it. For example CQG does not have native auto-liquidation. There is a vendor they work with but it is very expensive and most FCMs don't use it.
     
    #12     Feb 15, 2023
    Gambit and heispark like this.
  3. hilmy83

    hilmy83

    More important question is how is spread trading going for you? As far as consistency/return.

    I figure this can easily be automated
     
    #13     Feb 15, 2023
  4. heispark

    heispark

    As far as I know, they don't respect SPAN margin of spread trading just like TD Ameritrade.
     
    #14     Feb 16, 2023
  5. heispark

    heispark

    Thank you very much for your feedback and detailed information. I will check this with my broker..... It really helps.
    Thanks,
     
    #15     Feb 16, 2023
    DanB65 likes this.
  6. heispark

    heispark

    In this winter, nat gas marked the highest volatility in 30 years but I am still comfortably trading nat gas spreads. Yes, I currently have some minor pending loss but I expect it will be recovered sooner or later. I have had only one major loss when I played a gambling with notorious 'widow maker spread' which is March-April spread. Other than that, I really love spread trading. Actually, this is the only strategy for me has survived for 3 years. What I like the most however is, unlike day trading, it requires very minimum time spending for me. I think I can easily make 50% gain per year without sacrificing my personal life. Leverage is important here too. There are people who easily make triple digit % gains for some time but they would eventually blow their account because of over-leveraging. Although personally I don't know much about automation, I don't think you really need automation for spread trading as it already requires very minimum time spending.
    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2023
    #16     Feb 16, 2023
    Gambit and easymon1 like this.
  7. hilmy83

    hilmy83

    That's interesting. I'm pretty much at the same spot too. Just aiming for like 40-50% annual gains but with full automation. I'm resigning to the possibility this is the best I can do and focus more on other things in life like my career or other business ideas.
     
    #17     Feb 16, 2023
    heispark likes this.
  8. BAT31

    BAT31

    That is certainly not true. IB offsets margins on spreads, as indicated below:

    upload_2023-2-16_13-34-54.png
     
    #18     Feb 16, 2023
  9. abc1234

    abc1234

    The exchange listed maintenance requirement on that H3-K3 spread is 900. Outright maint. req. for CLH3 is 6,600.

    Personally, I like to keep my margin level in the 25-40% range of Total Equity. If my broker was charging 3x the exchange SPAN margin I would not be able to do that.

    upload_2023-2-16_14-44-27.png
     
    #19     Feb 16, 2023
    heispark likes this.
  10. BAT31

    BAT31

    It is rare to find a broker that offers the exchange-recommended maintenance margins. Most will offer a multiple of that.

    At least IB offers some margin relief. Whereas some offer none. Besides, I go with IB because I can create trading algos using Python.

    Besides, you can always ask the broker for a reduction in margin. Then again, that would depend on your account size.
     
    #20     Feb 16, 2023
    theledger likes this.