rcan: >How little you understand of scripture. The >New Testament fulfilled the Old. "It is finished." >"If anyone adds to the words of these prophecies" >as said at the end of Revelation. My goodness -- a ranting fool who doesn't understand the scriptures of the *New Testament*, claiming that someone else is a ranting fool. The *New Testament* scripture allows for the gift of prophecy and thus directly and clearly contradicts your position on the scripture. Someone has their panties in a wad without knowing what the scripture actually says *in entirety*. JB
It seems that you might be the one who is misunderstanding. For some reason you seem to think that prophecy was intended to stop after Christ. So when exactly did prophecy stop? When Christ died? When John died? About 350 AD when the bible was arranged? It is glaringly obvious to a biblical scholar that John's statement in Revelation was pertaining to that book only. And a good part of your fellow Christians are still in debate as to which other books should be included. John's statement isn't only warning people that add to. It also warns people who take from. So amongst mainstream Christians any sect with a bible that has more or fewer books is in direct violation? Protestant bibles have 66 books. Catholics have 73 books. Greek Orthodox has 77 books. Ethiopic has 81 books.
Baptism in water is not necessary. I was baptized by John because the Spirit led me to do so on a path to know my Self. There is only symbolism in baptism. If you understand the symbol that the Spirit uses, you can use the understanding to know your Self and be saved. I was baptized with everyone else meaning, I am the Son of God with everyone else. I was not baptized any different from any other of John's baptisms, meaning I am not different. The denial of differences in the Son of God is your salvation. Otherwise, you will never know that there is but one Son of God, and you are That One. There was a voice at my baptism that said, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." Many who heard it took that to mean just me. But I took it to mean all who were seeking the truth through the light that John was sharing. There is yet other symbolism in baptism. But if you don't understand the symbol, it is worthless to your salvation. For baptism to be meaningful toward your salvation, you will want to understand that it symbolizes the washing of the mind of the concept of guilt. From a metaphysical point of view, the body cannot exist without the concept of guilt held in the mind. So baptism also symbolizes the washing away of the body from the mind of Christ. For the body is a symbol of guilt. It would never even seem to exist were it not for the idea of guilt that lodges in the mind of Christ. It is this unfounded concept of guilt that gives rise to the phenomenon of birth in a body. Guilt lodges itself in the deep crevices of the unconscious mind. Water symbolizes the way to wash it out until it is completely gone. John symbolizes one who looks for light from beyond this world. He was not yet completely aware that the light comes from within, and not from without. And this is because guilt blocks the awareness of light within your mind. John still held a belief in guilt. And while he was busy washing that mind symbolically through baptism, the "light of the world" came to him, and he recognized it. Symbols are for teaching. In and of themselves they do nothing. I, Jesus, am a symbol. I cannot save you unless you are willing to understand what symbols mean. And then it is your willingness that saves you...your willingness to clear guilt from your mind. The way to wash guilt from your mind is to forgive. When you forgive "others", you reverse the law of perception and you begin to see yourself as innocent. This is because "others" are still within your mind, acting out the guilt that you think is yours. As you forgive them - see them as innocent - your mind is washed of guilt. With practice, you can wash it all out. Baptism means you are committing to a process of washing, no matter how long it may take. This is the baptism that saves you because it restores your mind to its natural God-given state of innocence. Here is where you find your power restored. This is a process. The process is called "Atonement". It is not until you wash away guilt from your mind that you will accept the guiltless awareness of atonement completely, and know yourself as one with the Father. If you baptize a baby, all it means is that you are aware that there would be no such thing as birth in bodies without a concept of guilt in the mind of Christ. By baptizing a baby, you are merely committing yourself to raising the child in a way that washes this concept of guilt from their mind. You commit to seeing them as the Christ child instead. You are committing to the process of forgiveness. And in this way, you forgive yourself for what you have not done, and wash your mind clear. Jesus
First off, your link stated that baptism by water isn't necessary for salvation. Then you critisize my interpretation of the verse and offer no interpretation of your own. Second, your link provided 9 points of doctrine that supposedly conflict with mainstream christendom, and a few of them were redundant. I'm assuming that those points were the best they could muster in their criticism of the mormons. This hardly equals hundreds of teachings that conflict with the bible. These points are almost completely based on the nature of God. Numerous world renowned bible scholars admit that the trinitarian version of God is not to be found in scripture and they offer historical evidence to suggest that Pagan rulers played a very influential role in the creation of this concept. Third, I'm the one here claiming that God has not stopped communicating with man. I'm stating that he continues to call prophets. I'll even provide a nonmormon link of explanation to biblical reference of prophets in modern times. http://www.seekerstrove.com/apostlesprophets.htm How could you possibly say that I'm tesifying that God stopped communicating with us? Fourth, never part of which "kingdom"? "You either believe or you don't." Huh!?!? Believe in what? I believe in Christ. I believe that only through Him will I be saved. What beliefs are irrelevant? You mean the beliefs that God has planted in their hearts? Obviously the nature of God is debateable. Look at the history of your own church for evidence of that. But other than the nature of God, cite to me some mormon doctrines that are foundational beliefs that contradict the Bible.
Here is a copy of the mormon "Articles of Faith", which we refer to as the fundamental beliefs of the church. Feel free to discuss how these contradict the bible. 1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. 2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adamâs transgression. 3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. 4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. 6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth. 7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth. 8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. 9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. 10 We believe in the literal agathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory. 11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. 12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. 13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of PaulâWe believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
They are similar, yes. I am granted a few paragraphs in the middle. The most redeeming aspect of the Book of Mormon is it's emphasis upon listening to the Holy Spirit. It implies that all are capable of hearing his voice. But it honors those who seem to hear this voice most clearly, tracking their experiences in the world. It suggests that bad things happen to those who don't listen, and good things happen to those who do. Those who do see others as brothers, even those tribes who seem to attack them whenever they stray from the Voice of the Holy Spirit. It's the story of how a family was led away from destruction to a new land by listening to the Holy Spirit. This symbolizes a path leading from this world back to heaven. It also symbolizes the paths leading away from heaven in the story of one family multiplying into warring tribes. Yet there is an emphasis on "sameness" and laws that apply to all. These symbols are at least as valid as the symbols in the Hebrew scriptures. One story has two kings battling with multitudes until all their men are dead and they must fight hand to hand combat. And presumably, this is the result of not listening to the Holy Spirit. Mormon and Moroni stand longest in battle because they do listen. These are "old covenant" type symbols. You can learn from them if you can interpret with the Holy Spirit. For example, it was thought that each city should be defended with a kind of wall. But this defense was eventually turned against them, providing their enemies with fortresses. The Atonement is the only defense that cannot be turned against you. If you truly listen to the Holy Spirit, you will not need to defend yourself. He will lead you away from pain always. To accomplish this, the Holy Spirit teaches to drop all thoughts of attack altogether. Defense reinforces a belief in attack. Innocence is your salvation. Beware of a belief in attack. That is the world's form of salvation. It is of a voice in your mind that drowns out the Voice of the Holy Spirit. Jesus
Just curious, as I have heard this from a practicing Mormon. Does the Mormon church believe in a Mother God? And does the Mormon Church believe that each person has the ability to become him/herself gods over their own universe? Something to the effect that God was once like a man and we can become like God is now?
The way I was taught, many years ago, was that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was just an oven that baked the bread. This was a major point about the catholics being a cult, due to the catholic reverence of the mother of the son, The teaching was that Catholics worshiped a false god. Of course that was in the early 60s that I was forced to listen to fat skanks get all righteous in the sanctity of a church. Things might have changed by now.
Quote from Cache Landing: First off, your link stated that baptism by water isn't necessary for salvation. Correct, as the one thief on the cross was never baptized but was promised Paradise that same day Then you critisize my interpretation of the verse and offer no interpretation of your own. Reread bottom of page 8 Second, your link provided 9 points of doctrine that supposedly conflict with mainstream christendom, and a few of them were redundant. I'm assuming that those points were the best they could muster in their criticism of the mormons. This hardly equals hundreds of teachings that conflict with the bible. Do your own internet search. There are well more than hundreds Third, I'm the one here claiming that God has not stopped communicating with man. Except somehow thinking that the Book of Mormon is needed to follow on after the New Testament when it is clearly unneeded Fourth, never part of which "kingdom"? "You either believe or you don't." Huh!?!? Believe in what? I believe in Christ. I believe that only through Him will I be saved. What beliefs are irrelevant? You mean the beliefs that God has planted in their hearts? It is quite obvious you are more interested in defending Mormon interprations than in defending the truth of God. Clearly demonstrate the need for the Book of Mormon, especially in light of the end of Revelation 22, which you seem to think only applies to that book, when Revelation is clearly the apocryphal work extending from the Gospels, Epistles and Acts to the end of time when Christ triumphantly returns. The Book of Mormon is clearly sacriligeous Obviously the nature of God is debateable. It is not debatable. The scripture makes His nature quite clear. This page is quite succinct about this topic, including numerous scripture proofs: http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/ But other than the nature of God, cite to me some mormon doctrines that are foundational beliefs that contradict the Bible. You mentioned what I provided above. But you ignored the 9 examples I gave you