Sound like Christians to me.

chuck:
>Humanity tends to jealously guard
>their own brand of fiction.

Man, ain't that the truth.

JB

 

Apostasy is symbolic. It is a recurring theme in a world that is itself a kind of apostasy.

The original apostasy was the denial of reality by a thought that passed through the mind of Christ.

The world of space and time is that thought followed through it's various themes and iterations.

At last, the thought is seen for all it holds, and it is let go, along with all that it holds.

The idea of time was never able to change the truth about all those who seem to journey through it.

And so, all who labor in journeys remain as God created them: Christ, who makes the world upon an impossible thought.

Christ is the "Kingdom of God". This is reality.

Christ thought he could withdraw himself from his Creator, robbing him of his Kingdom.

The thoughts and feelings that followed upon this foundation built this world in the mind of Christ.

This world flashed across the mind of Christ with no more significance than a green flash at sunset.

The illusion of time makes it seem very old with an origin long forgotten and disputed.

"Father, into your hands I commend my spirit" means I no longer held onto the idea that Christ could steal away God's Kingdom for his own private use.

The ego arises from this idea, and dies when it is given up.

Dying, the temple of the mind is left clear of "abominations", finding itself unchanged, unchangeable, and eternal as God gave it to him.

This is the meaning of "restoration".

If you are interested in the restoration of the "temple" you will begin clearing your mind of thoughts that are not true.

If you are not willing to accept that you are Christ, you will not be able to clear the temple. All you will do is rearrange the money-tables around.

This is because the denial that you are Christ is what fills the "temple" with exchange mechanisms that convert your identity into some other form, robbing you of your wealth.

So you have exchanged your eternal spirit for bodies. Was it a good trade? I think not.

The world exhibits the reversal of cause and effect because it is premised on denying the Fatherhood of Christ, making himself his own father.

This results in a kingdom that is always in revolt against it's maker. It results in kings who are tyrannical, half out of their minds with abuse of power. The gods of this kingdom mimic tyrants as they reflect the kind of thinking that makes this world.

The truth is you are the maker of this world. And it will always seem to be in revolt against you until you acknowledge true order of cause and effect. Till then, it will aways seem to "make or break" you...or both.

You did not make yourself, as Christ. When Christ acknowledges his Father, the effects of denial begin to fade away.

And so, this world shall pass away. It will pass as each Christ who has exchanged his eternal spirit for a body, gives his spirit back to the "Father".

It's important to be aware that bodies were not given us by our Father.

We made them ourselves, becoming our own maker.

On the way home, we will lay them down. They are toys. They don't work all that well, and the initial fascination is fading.

As toys, we are tin soldiers, constantly fighting for imagined makers.

We tell ourselves that we are our Father's toys, deceiving ourselves.

Our mind is the temple. The world is an "abomination" within it.

When you "see" this, you are ready to accept the truth about yourself...ready to "know thyself".

Religions stumble whenever they make the "abomination" out to be God-given, as if this were the Kingdom our Father gave to us.

It is not.

Now I ask you, which religions tell us that "in the beginning, God made the heavens and the earth"?

Which religions value bodies as a gift from our Father?

Here is where the confusion begins and ends.

Christ is equal to God. There is nothing that God creates that is not equal to him.

The world is all about inequalities, and what experiences flow from them.

Perceived rightly, the world is imagined in a mind equal to the Father. It is not a gift such Father would give to his Son. It is the Son's gift to himself. It is an expression of his freedom.

But it is not what he truly wants. He does not want to forget himself forever. So it shall pass.

The "Holy Spirit" remembers who the Son of God is, always...and reminds him.

The Holy Spirit is you. The body-mind is a self-concept that temporarily represents "you" as you identify with it. It is not "you".

The "Holy Spirit" is you reminding your self-concept about the truth. The self-concept seems to have a will of it's own. As it is willing to lay this will aside, it fades and the body embodies only the will of Self...which is one with the Father.

The Holy Spirit is "sent" from heaven to remind you of your truth.

That is why I said I am "sent" from heaven. Yet I, Jesus, am not different from you. I am not special.

When you open your mind to truth, the Holy Spirit will answer your questions. This casts light upon a darkened mind. As the light spreads, the whole world is "saved".

Jesus

 

That might be his reasoning, but in actuality, the LDS church provides an enormous amount of aid to both members and non-members.

The main requirements for continued assistance are that the person honestly try to better his situation. LDS people teach that communities should be industrious and that everyone should attempt to be self-sufficient.

The LDS welfare system has been studied by numerous national leaders for its ability to provide assitance to so many people without the church going into debt.

 

Part 1 (10,000 character limit)

Since you are such an expert on the Book of Mormon, I welcome you to propose to me, which teachings of that book don't jive with the Old-New Testament, and we can discuss those passages if you'd like.

Fine:

1. IS THERE MORE THAN ONE TRUE GOD?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that there is only one True and Living God and apart from Him there are no other Gods (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10,11; 44:6,8; 45:21,22; 46:9; Mark 12:29-34).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that there are many Gods (Book of Abraham 4:3ff), and that we can become gods and goddesses in the celestial kingdom (Doctrine and Covenants 132:19-20; Gospel Principles, p. 245; Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 130). It also teaches that those who achieve godhood will have spirit children who will worship and pray to them, just as we worship and pray to God the Father (Gospel Principles, p. 302).

2. WAS GOD ONCE A MAN LIKE US?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that God is Spirit (John 4:24; 1 Timothy 6:15,16), He is not a man (Numbers 23:19; Hosea 11:9; Romans 1:22, 23), and has always (eternally) existed as God — all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere present (Psalm 90:2; 139:7-10; Isaiah 40:28; Luke 1:37).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that God the Father was once a man like us who progressed to become a God and has a body of flesh and bone (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22; "God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!" from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-347; Gospel Principles, p. 9; Articles of Faith, p. 430; Mormon Doctrine, p. 321). Indeed, the Mormon Church teaches that God himself has a father, and a grandfather, ad infinitum (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373; Mormon Doctrine, p. 577).

3. ARE JESUS AND SATAN SPIRIT BROTHERS?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that Jesus is the unique Son of God; he has always existed as God, and is co-eternal and co-equal with the Father (John 1:1, 14; 10:30; 14:9; Colossians 2:9). While never less than God, at the appointed time He laid aside the glory He shared with the Father (John 17:4, 5; Philippians 2:6-11) and was made flesh for our salvation; His incarnation was accomplished through being conceived supernaturally by the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin (Matthew 1:18-23; Luke 1:34-35).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Jesus Christ is our elder brother who progressed to godhood, having first been procreated as a spirit child by Heavenly Father and a heavenly mother; He was later conceived physically through intercourse between Heavenly Father and the virgin Mary (Achieving a Celestial Marriage, p. 129; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547; 742). Mormon doctrine affirms that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers (Gospel Principles, pp. 17-18; Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).

4. IS GOD A TRINITY?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost are not separate Gods or separate beings, but are distinct Persons within the one Triune Godhead. Throughout the New Testament the Son and the Holy Spirit, as well as the Father are separately identified as and act as God (Son: Mark 2:5-12; John 20:28; Philippians 2:10,11; Holy Spirit: Acts 5:3,4; 2 Corinthians 3:17,18; 13:14); yet at the same time the Bible teaches that these three are only one God (see point 1).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate Gods (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 576-577), and that the Son and Holy Ghost are the literal offspring of Heavenly Father and a celestial wife (Joseph Fielding McConkie, Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 2, p. 649).

 

Not really what I was saying was interesting, but I agree with most of what you're saying.

I was saying interesting that they are guarding, as you say, their own brand, as if they have a single brand to guard. For ages they have proclaimed their differences until the mormons came along. Now they are suddenly the same? That's what I think is interesting.

 

5. WAS THE SIN OF ADAM AND EVE A GREAT EVIL OR A GREAT BLESSING?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the disobedience of our first parents Adam and Eve was a great evil. Through their fall sin entered the world, bringing all human beings under condemnation and death. Thus we are born with a sinful nature, and will be judged for the sins we commit as individuals. (Ezekiel 18:1-20; Romans 5:12-21).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that Adam’s sin was "a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us" (Gospel Principles, p. 33; Book of Mormon — 2 Nephi 2:25; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 114-115).

6. CAN WE MAKE OURSELVES WORTHY BEFORE GOD?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that apart from the saving work of Jesus Christ on the cross we are spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1,5) and are powerless to save ourselves. By grace alone, apart from self-righteous works, God forgives our sins and makes us worthy to live in His presence (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-6). Our part is only to cling to Christ in heartfelt faith. (However, it is certainly true that without the evidence of changed conduct, a person’s testimony of faith in Christ must be questioned; salvation by grace alone through faith, does not mean we can live as we please — Romans 6:1-4).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that eternal life in the presence of God (which it terms "exaltation in the celestial kingdom") must be earned through obedience to all the commands of the Mormon Church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals. Works are a requirement for salvation (entrance into the "celestial kingdom") — Gospel Principles, p. 303-304; Pearl of Great Price — Third Article of Faith; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 339, 671; Book of Mormon — 2 Nephi 25:23).

7. DOES CHRIST'S ATONING DEATH BENEFIT THOSE WHO REJECT HIM?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the purpose of the atoning work of Christ on the cross was to provide the complete solution for humankind’s sin problem. However, those who reject God’s grace in this life will have no part in this salvation but are under the judgment of God for eternity (John 3:36; Hebrews 9:27; 1 John 5:11-12).

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the purpose of the atonement was to bring resurrection and immortality to all people, regardless of whether they receive Christ by faith. Christ’s atonement is only a partial basis for worthiness and eternal life, which also requires obedience to all the commands of the Mormon church, including exclusive Mormon temple rituals (Gospel Principles, pp. 74-75; Mormon Doctrine, p. 669).

8. IS THE BIBLE THE UNIQUE AND FINAL WORD OF GOD?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the Bible is the unique, final and infallible Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 1:1,2; 2 Peter 1:21) and that it will stand forever (1 Peter 1:23-25). God’s providential preservation of the text of the Bible was marvelously illustrated in the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that the Bible has been corrupted, is missing many "plain and precious parts" and does not contain the fullness of the Gospel (Book of Mormon — 1 Nephi 13:26-29; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, pp. 190-191).

9. DID THE EARLY CHURCH FALL INTO TOTAL APOSTASY?

The Bible teaches and orthodox Christians through the ages have believed that the true Church was divinely established by Jesus and could never and will never disappear from the earth (Matthew 16:18; John 15:16; 17:11). Christians acknowledge that there have been times of corruption and apostasy within the Church, but believe there has always been a remnant that held fast to the biblical essentials.

By contrast, the Mormon Church teaches that there was a great and total apostasy of the Church as established by Jesus Christ; this state of apostasy "still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" of the Mormon Church (Gospel Principles, pp. 105-106; Mormon Doctrine, p. 44).


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Conclusion: The above points in italics constitute the common gospel believed by all orthodox Christians through the ages regardless of denominational labels. On the other hand, some new religions such as Mormonism claim to be Christian, but accept as Scripture writings outside of the Bible, teach doctrines that contradict the Bible, and hold to beliefs completely foreign to the teachings of Jesus and His apostles.

Mormons share with orthodox Christians some important moral precepts from the Bible. However, the above points are examples of the many fundamental and irreconcilable differences between historic, biblical Christianity and Mormonism. While these differences do not keep us from being friendly with Mormons, we cannot consider them brothers and sisters in Christ. The Bible specifically warns of false prophets who will teach "another gospel" centered around "another Jesus," and witnessed to by "another spirit" (2 Corinthians 11:4,13-15; Galatians 1:6-9). Based on the evidence presented above, we believe Mormonism represents just such a counterfeit gospel.

It has been pointed out that if one claimed to be a Mormon but denied all the basic tenets of Mormonism — that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that the Book of Mormon is true and divinely inspired, that god was once a man who progressed to godhood through keeping the laws and ordinances of the Mormon Church, and that the Mormon Church was divinely established — the Mormon Church would reject such a person’s claim to being a Latter-day Saint. One cannot fairly call oneself a Mormon if one does not believe the fundamental doctrines taught by the Mormon Church. By the same token, if the Mormon Church does not hold to even the basic biblical truths believed by the greater Christian community down through the ages, how can Christians reasonably be expected to accept Mormonism as authentic Christianity?

If the Mormon Church believes it is the only true Christian Church, it should not attempt to publicly present itself as a part of a broader Christian community. Instead it should tell the world openly that those who claim to be orthodox Christians are not really Christians at all, and that the Mormon Church is the only true Christian Church. This in fact is what it teaches privately, but not publicly.

Quote from Cache Landing:
Personally, I don't want to be the one telling God that he can't communicate with us anymore. Who decided that anyway? Who was it that first decided that God was no longer capable of providing direction to us? Am I really supposed to believe that God provided direction to his children from Adam down to John and then decided that everyone had to figure it out for themselves for the next few thousand years?

How little you understand of scripture. The New Testament fulfilled the Old. "It is finished." "If anyone adds to the words of these prophecies" as said at the end of Revelation. The one who decided, as you call it, was God. He didn't seek your opinion on how He planned it.

The point was, that all had been fulfilled. There is no lack of God's communication to people. To those who believe and understand, it is screamingly obvious. To those who wander around with strange teachings, they will continue to think we are somehow critical to the plan of God. In reality, we deserve nothing from Him, and most continue on their way, thinking they have a say in how the Universe should be run.

The scriptures say clearly that it is sufficient for teaching, correction and reproof. You decided that it was insufficient, and an oddball decided to transplant the gospel to the New World and start again.

Foolish man, your blindness reigns, and you will find yourself explaining to God why you think he was wrong.

You couldn't even scrape together a passable argument of divine grace and how it interacts with people, from a biblical point of view. The Book of Mormon was written by a deluded curiosity seeker. The scripture was written by the divine. And it is incomprehensible to the wayward (the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing).

 

Indeed. And in so damning, they damn themselves in the name of heaven.

They would not damn if they knew the path.

Losing the path, there is confusion about what is to be saved, and how to save it.

I would remind all those who labor on a long and useless journey:

Salvation is for the mind, and it is attained by peace.

Whenever there is an attempt to include the body-mind concept in salvation, confusion ensues, and the path is lost. Damnation is simply to wander on paths of "salvation" that lead nowhere, until the path home is chosen.

The ascension of a body is merely symbolic. It is a teaching device. There are no resurrections where you can get one back or take one with you. There are no "second coming" of bodies.

There are no bodies in heaven because nothing in heaven is limited.

Ascension symbolizes the rising of awareness from the limits of the earth and it's "laws". It symbolizes the truth that the Son of God is not bound by any laws of the world, including gravity.

By returning your mind to the truth, your thoughts will set you free of the world and it's limits.

Keep in mind that the world is thought. What appears to be "physical" is still thought. Thoughts appear to walk and talk and call themselves "me". But they are just thoughts in the mind of Christ.

If you would walk the path of salvation, let the earthly globe you walk on symbolize the mind. See a thought, walking around a mind. Then see the mind as your own. See the thought as an illusion. See the mind as your reality.

If you don't like what your eyes and ears see or hear, exchange false thoughts for true thoughts.

As you fill your head with the truth, you will no longer see what you do not want to see.

Instead, the Kingdom of God will unfold before you, hidden only by your elusive thoughts about reality.


Jesus

 

No, Paul specifically warned of such things in letters that he had no idea would ever be the main course in a curriculum accepted by the victors of a war for mind-share.

The victors chose Paul's Jesus to represent their own preferences.

But Paul's letters are themselves "another gospel" centered around "another Jesus".

Jesus