Let me suggest you do not see why it is hard for others to accept the absurd and ridiculous proposals your bible puts forward , because having been attacked by calvanism, your rationality has short circuited . In those circumstances, what you propose may seem sensible to you , but only because with such religious faiths, there is no requirement to be consistent in using reason. I have asked you a few times to explain what you mean by 'spiritual'.Quoting passages from the same tale, which only repeats the same incoherence, is not helping any.
dammit Turok I'm trying, really . Look>>> not thinking ...don't think... stop thinking...mustn't use any common sense..don't question..blindly accept...<<<< ..ahhh... no good. some programs JB, are just too damn daft to get with
And I have explained it several times, and you still are unable to grasp. It is incomprehensible to nonbelievers. They are only able to mock, but of course, that is what the scripture says in many places. "They will look but not see, they will listen but not hear." "The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing" etc. etc. If you are looking for a webster's definition, then have at it: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/spiritual
[10] EPH 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. [11] ROM 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. [12] JOH 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. EZE 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. [13] PHI 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. 2CO 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God. [14] PHI 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. HEB 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: 12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises. 2PE 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue. 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. ISA 64:7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities. 2TI 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands. ACT 26:6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers: 7 Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. JUD 20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. SCRIPTURE REFERENCES CONTINUED [15] LUK 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. NEH 13:22 And I commanded the Levites that they should cleanse themselves, and that they should come and keep the gates, to sanctify the sabbath day. Remember me, O my God, concerning this also, and spare me according to the greatness of thy mercy. JOB 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? 3 If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand. GAL 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. [16] ROM 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. ROM 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works. EPH 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. TIT 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. ROM 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. PSA 16:2 O my soul, thou hast said unto the Lord, Thou art my Lord: my goodness extendeth not to thee. JOB 22:2 Can a man be profitable unto God, as he that is wise may be profitable unto himself? 3 Is it any pleasure to the Almighty, that thou art righteous? or is it gain to him that thou makest thy ways perfect? 35:7 If thou be righteous, what givest thou him? or what receiveth he of thine hand? 8 Thy wickedness may hurt a man as thou art; and thy righteousness may profit the son of man. [17] LUK 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. [18] GAL 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [19] ISA 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. GAL 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. ROM 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 18 For I know that in me(that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. PSA 143:2 And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified. PSA 130:3 If thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? [20] EPH 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 1PE 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. EXO 28:38 And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the Lord. GEN 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering. HEB 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. [21] JOB 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse. PSA 143:2 And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified. [22] HEB 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 2CO 8:12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. HEB 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. MAT 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. 23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. [23] 2KI 10:30 And the Lord said unto Jehu, Because thou hast done well in executing that which is right in mine eyes, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in mine heart, thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel. 31 But Jehu took no heed to walk in the law of the Lord God of Israel with all his heart: for he departed not from the sins of Jeroboam, which made Israel to sin. 1KI 21:27 And it came to pass, when Ahab heard those words, that he rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his flesh, and fasted, and lay in sackcloth, and went softly. 29 Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house. PHI 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: PHI 1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
[24] GEN 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. HEB 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. [25] 1CO 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. ISA 1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? [26] MAT 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. [27] HAG 2:14 Then answered Haggai, and said, So is this people, and so is this nation before me, saith the Lord; and so is every work of their hands; and that which they offer there is unclean. TIT 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. AMO 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. 22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. HOS 1:4 And the Lord said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel. ROM 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. TIT 3:15 All that are with me salute thee. Greet them that love us in the faith. Grace be with you all. Amen. [28] PSA 14:4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord. 36:3 The words of his mouth are iniquity and deceit: he hath left off to be wise, and to do good. JOB 21:14 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. 15 What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him? MAT 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. MAT 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
rcanfiel, you seem oblivious to this. Each time I ask you to explain, you say you have explained. What is ? You cannot give your explanation. It doesn't even get to be incomprehensible. OK, Tell him Matt.. "Matthew 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, " 'etc. etc.' You are making mockery of common sense to claim you have explained when you haven't explained. I am listening, you are explaining nothing. Eager to hear what it is you are trying not to say. You know, you can be as supercilious, high minded, pious and arrogant as you like, but I don't think you are doing yourself or anyone else any favors by it. It's a simple question with some honest straight forward enquiry into one of the countless bizarre claims made in the Bible, which you have highlighted. "Spiritually made in God's image" What do you mean by spiritually? From what you haven't said do you mean... Spiritually made is emotionally or imaginarily made ? as opposed to "made from dust" ..which would be Actual or Real ('physical' did you suggest)? Is that right or not? If not please explain preferably without going off into more pages of contradictory Bible text OR by saying you have explained when you didn't. erm, thanks.
====================== ATTEMPT ONE: Quote from stu: So how come you tweeze? Worse still. You tweeze out of an interpretation of Geneses to support a position you favor, when actually... Gen 1 :28-30 has man created in God's image on the 5th day Gen 2 : 5-8 & Gen 2:21-23 (rather contradictorily) has man formed from dust by God after the 7th day The second is a much fuller elaboration of the same event. Hebrew often uses repetition. Sometimes the repetition is very local. "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path." The 4 gospels also cover many similar events from different perspectives and for different audiences. Luke is a Gentile, Matthew, Mark & John are Israelis. Quote from stu:Then it applies to you also. Man in God's image Genesis 1 , is not the same as the man from dust in Genesis 2. The first is spiritual. The second is physical. ====================== ATTEMPT TWO: Quote from stu: Thanks for the explanation. I accept the notion of repetition here , although a collection of tales brought together clumsily would also fit the bill. Obviously God was intending to pass the word whilst being at Its most lucid, telling the same story at least twice each in contradiction to the other within the same story ! Sounding more in the way of man made pantomome. OK, the same event creation of man. According to the story, man is said to be made like God in Its image. Then in the same story, man is not made like God (in Its image) but from dust. Was God made from dust with nostrils? No?..So which is it? You mean the first is the story's appeal is for an emotional pretence and the second is supposed to be what actually happens? The first deals with that man is spiritually made in God's image. God is spirit, not physical. No animal possesses this. The second deals with that man is made from the earth. Man has a physical body. Man has a spirit/soul and man has a body. ====================== ATTEMPT THREE: Quote from stu: "Spiritually made in God's image". I ask again, what do you mean to say by the word spiritually? How are you interpreting Genesis 1 here? Inserting words to make another meaning? "spiritually".. Is it - man is sort of made , emotionally maginary,... religiously made? From the Westminster Confession of Faith (a clarifying synopsis created in Scotland several centuries ago representing a Calvinistic position on scriptures, along with scriptural references): After God had made all other creatures, He created man, male and female... GEN 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. with reasonable and immortal souls... GEN 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. ECC 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. LUK 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. MAT 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. endued with knowledge, righteousness, and true holiness, after His own image GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. COL 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him. EPH 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. having the law of God written in their hearts ROM 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another. and power to fulfil it ECC 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. and yet under a possibility of transgressing, being left to the liberty of their own will, which was subject unto change GEN 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. ECC 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. ====================== ATTEMPT FOUR: Quote from stu: It doesn't deal with anything. Genesis 2 just says there are no men so man was made by something called God from dust. It contradicts Genesis 1 and you have to assume contrary connections between - in God's image then - not in God's image - then in and not in God's image at the same time. More quirky stories from the same tale doesn't help much, sorry.. There are no quirky stories. you cannot grasp the concept because you do not grasp infinite, eternal matters. It is like trying to explain a cube to a 2-dimensional being. You can no more grasp the full meaning of this than you could give an intelligible explanation of the nature of dark matter, dark energy, and the currently believed 11-dimensional space (if these are even correct). And spiritual concepts are well beyond such basic cosmologies. A man has a body and a man has a soul/spirit. One passage is dealing with the spiritual aspect of people and the other is dealing with the physical aspect of people. I do not see why this is hard. ATTEMPT FIVE Quote from stu: I have asked you a few times to explain what you mean by 'spiritual'. And I have explained it several times, and you still are unable to grasp. It is incomprehensible to nonbelievers. They are only able to mock, but of course, that is what the scripture says in many places. "They will look but not see, they will listen but not hear." "The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing" etc. etc.. If you are looking for a webster's definition, then have at it: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/spiritual
"ATTEMPT ONE:" Quote from stu: Then it applies to you also. Man in God's image Genesis 1 , is not the same as the man from dust in Genesis 2. Quote from rcanfiel: The first is spiritual. The second is physical. As far as that goes, you appear to be proposing spiritual and physical are not the same. I understand what the physical reference might be, So I requested your explanation for "spiritual". "ATTEMPT TWO:" The first deals with that man is spiritually made in God's image. God is spirit, not physical. No animal possesses this. The second deals with that man is made from the earth. Man has a physical body. Man has a spirit/soul and man has a body. That highlights 2 conflicting passages in Geneses. It does not explain what you mean by "spiritually" . Allow me to extract from that the closest you seem to come to an explanation of "spiritually" without actually offering one "man is spiritually made in God's image" Then explain what you mean by "spiritually made". What is that? "God is spirit, not physical " What do you mean by "God is spirit"? Is it - God is imaginary or God is pretend? "Man has a spirit/soul and man has a body" Yes ok, man has a body, but what do you mean by "spirit"? All you are doing is repeating the word and for some reason, seem to think by doing so have explained it. "ATTEMPT THREE:" GEN 2:7 GEN 1:26 etc etc Questions naturally arise because there is nothing in Bible text which does not either confuse meaning even further, or produce additional contradiction. So re-quoting the bits you are tweezing out (even though it was you who said not to tweeze) , can do nothing to explain what you mean by "spirituallity". "ATTEMPT FOUR:" There are no quirky stories. you cannot grasp the concept because you do not grasp infinite, eternal matters. It is like trying to explain a cube to a 2-dimensional being. You can no more grasp the full meaning of this than you could give an intelligible explanation of the nature of dark matter, dark energy, and the currently believed 11-dimensional space (if these are even correct). And spiritual concepts are well beyond such basic cosmologies. Here you say, other things cannot be explained, and spiritual concepts are even more unexplainable !! As if that should stand as an explanation for "spirituality". Puleeze, come on. One thing I do grasp is that so far, NO explanation of "spirituality" has been forthcoming. "ATTEMPT FIVE:" And I have explained it several times, and you still are unable to grasp. Was Five an attempt!? I have now further grasped the fact you have made "5 Attempts" to give no explanation. No helpful or meaningful information past an awkward obstinacy to feign one through 5 incoherent responses which all rely on erroneous claims to one degree or another. If you really are not up to it, why not just say so. What is it about religion that makes you think something is being done when patently it is not. The 2 Genesis passages give contradiction in the the part of God as to what It says, does, or might actually be. The Genesis scene as a package is a mess of inconsistency and further conflicting ideas. It is obviously myth, based on superstition, poorly put together and badly expressed. Your inability to make a tiny part of the tale and even the use of one word in it just the least bit tenable , depicts the utter unworthiness of claims apologists such as yourself unreasoningly make for it. But why do you do it?? On top of that, you argue other Christians are not Christians because they do not interpret the gobbledegook in a certain way, which in any case you can't clearly define any better than the submission of more gobbledegook !! Surely it must have been a choice between the loony bin or religion for such absurdities to reside.
Genesis is egoic viewpoint. It's preferable to the ego to convince us that we are bodies. Preferable? Neah. Imperitive. So the spiritual aspect is played down, and is being played down here by egoic advocacy. You've been told to go look in the dictionary if you want to know what spiritual means. But you are welcome to a full description of body parts...nostrils and all. "Temptation" is the ego's attempt to convince us of bodyhood as reality...bodyhood as our Father's creation. In this way, what passes for Christianity is actually advocacy of the "devil's" agenda. The world is an attempt, in the mind of Christ to maintain two kingdoms in his mind. One is real, one is not. And they are opposites. As the mind attempts to maintain both as real, it experiences the unreal, because both cannot be real. And so what is "divided" cannot stand. The mind then experiences bodyhood as it's reality...set upon a stage of constant change. I am about releasing mind from it's imprisonment within bodyhood...from it's belief in limits. Yet, those who teach in my name continue to use Genesis to stuff a "soul" into a body in the name of God. Like the Grinch Who Stole Christmas, they take all the gifts God gave his Son and stuff them into a tight bag, while whipping the bible to take the booty up to a dark cave. The truth is that we were created spirit-mind, not body-mind. As mind wanders away from spirit, it ramshakles a new home for itself as body. This is not of our Father. The results are extremely confusing. And that is what darkness is...confusion. Jesus