Discussion in 'Politics' started by LongShot, Mar 31, 2004.
did you miss me?
ok.... and the point you make is ?...
Well thank god . At last !
You have no choice but to implement relativistic logic and senses ONLY, to choose what you want to trust, there is nothing else. Every conclusion or assumption you make is available because of your relativistic logic and senses ONLY.
You have no choice, unless you are content with incoherence.
You want to what ...have faith they see green?? Why??... when they see red ?? They see red but you want to say they might see green so you want to have faith they see green. ( don't drive ART you will cause mayhem at junctions !)
You have no choice but to implement relativistic logic and senses ONLY, there is nothing else. Because without relativistic logic and senses you have NOTHING to judge, know, asses, evaluate, recognize, understand, relate, measure.
So when you implement religious faith, you do so ONLY because you have implemented relativistic logic and senses already.
Religious faith is not separate or in front of relativistic logic and senses, it is a result of using relativistic logic and senses, that religious faith is apparent to you anyway, just like EVERYTHING else is.
You may pretend all you want, that religious faith is somehow separate and not in need of being evaluated by using relativistic logic and senses whilst everything else is, however it obviously is not, as you recognize above.
AS the very idea that there could be something outside relativistic logic and senses, is ONLY arrived at by the implementation of relativistic logic and senses in the first place, ....makes the idea at the least as faulty as anything else you say is faulty, because it requires relativistic logic and senses !!
End of story.
I suggest you read the thread and do some search & reasearch. I would say the answer to those questions is much closer than you apparently realize.
ps: Gilbert IS pretty Cool
End of story?
You are one egocentric fool who thinks his experience is the base from which all people should form their decisions.
You are just as fanatical in your approach as Born Again Christian's are in theirs.
What is a riot, is that you are using relativistic logic and senses to make your case for relativistic logic and senses being the only way.
To the man blind from birth, color simply does not exist. He has to accept his blindness, and believe that the sighted are not lying to him when they speak of the colors of the rainbow.
Run along now Stu, or should I say, run in circles.....
Up a blind alley nowhere to go so you choose to stomp around in your own defecated triviality
Every time you get cornered you resort to stupidity and insult , both puking and shitting the same predictable puerile rhetoric, leaving you completely incapable of debate.
Your joke of an argument/point of view/delusion... stinks. It is baseless absurd and blatantly faulty and has been destroyed time after time.
It appears you will never free yourself from the restrictive mind limiting little world in which you have trapped yourself.
Your arguments have been exposed as nothing more than dishonest, shallow, and weak minded, but rather than address the way you have been wrecked time after time by so many people, you appear to enjoy revelling in the world of a juvenile ignorant moron, where the color RED is GREEN ...'cause you want it to be and 'cause you say it is. .
I'll run along ok, and if I should ever find myself in your silly little wheel, then I'll run the bastard thing off its bearings whilst you're still trying to faith RED into GREEN. LMAOOOO.
What's it like for you.... trying to get to Salt Lake City ART?....
"Hey pa, the traffic is piling up behind".....
"It's ok son, I am faithing this red light to green and then we go"...
"But pa, the lights keep turning to green by themselves"...
"No boy, that green is red, I have to faith the red to green"
"What about the yellow light pa?"
"Well son, that's not yellow, that is BLUE. Some egocentric fool idiot put it there just to try and confuse us. Just have faith boy, just have faith, we are moving down the road to God "
Yep, End of story alright ART... for you
You make a point in another post of " " and now you red and green your post?
Your unwillingness to admit your entire foundation is on the ASSumption that your relativistic logic and senses are in fact presenting Truth to you is indeed an expression of the megalomania of the intellect.
The fist little pig built his house on straw, thinking nothing could blow it down.
Such is the finite little mind who builds a foundation on circular logic unquestioned.
This gripping onto the certainty of ignorance of what is beyond the senses and intellect doesn't exist, comforts the shallow thinkers.
So too does the ostrich feel safe in knowing "what I can't see, can't hurt me."
Oh, I can do colors too....red and blue are ohhh sooo True.
I red and green my post....?? , lol you are too bizarre dude !
End of story for you ART.
Apparently you lack the depth to understand the meaning of a sardonic "indeed" following the absurdity of the reality of those who use relativistic logic and senses to defend relativistic logic and senses.
Jon E. Dougherty, Newsmax
In 2002, the Boston Globe uncovered a scandal of international proportions when it began running a series of investigative reports detailing dozens of cases in which Catholic priests had sexually abused scores of children.
The paper's damning revelations shook the church to its core, prompting outrage and calls for reform all the way from California to New York to the Vatican in Rome.
By year's end, some 1,200 priests had been accused of abuse nationwide, the New York Times reported, in an investigative report of its own. In the ensuing maelstrom, five U.S. prelates resigned. Also, bishops from Argentina, Germany, Ireland, Poland, Wales, Scotland, Canada, Switzerland and Austria were also forced out of the church. More than 80 percent of the church's victims were male.
Worse for the church, Americans discovered some of the most abusive priests were protected by upper echelons of the clergy. Repeated abusive offenses by men like Revs. James Porter and John Geoghan were covered up by the church or, when they occasionally were made public, dismissed as rarities or infrequent behavior.
These priests were moved around from diocese to diocese, given positions that limited their contact with children, or moved to administrative duties â but they usually found their way back into a parish, holding Mass and coming in contact with more potential victims.
In the end, the Vatican's credibility, the church itself, and the entire Catholic faith, was damaged to the point where it will take decades to repair; the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, in a report on the nature and scope of the abuse problems, found almost 11,000 cases of abuse by about 4,000 priests and deacons since 1950.
"The heartfelt sorrow that we feel for this violation and the often ineffective ways with which it was dealt has strengthened our commitment to do everything possible to see that it does not happen again," said Bishop Wilton Gregory, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Now, on the heels of the Catholic abuse scandal comes another of historic proportionsâone that has the potential to be much greater and far-reaching. According to a draft report commissioned by the U.S. Department of Education, in compliance with the 2002 "No Child Left Behind" act signed into law by President Bush, between 6 percent and 10 percent of public school children across the country have been sexually abused or harassed by school employees and teachers.
Charol Shakeshaft, the Hofstra University scholar who prepared the report, said the number of abuse casesâwhich range from unwanted sexual comments to rapeâcould be much higher.
"So we think the Catholic Church has a problem?" she told industry newspaper Education Week in a March 10 interview.
To support her contention, Shakeshaft compared the priest abuse data with data collected in a national survey for the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation in 2000. Extrapolating data from the latter, she estimated roughly 290,000 students experienced some sort of physical sexual abuse by a school employee from a single decadeâ1991-2000. That compares with about five decades of cases of abusive priests.
Such figures led her to contend "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."
The comparison of church-school sexual abuse cases began earlyâyears before Shakeshaft's report was completed.
In June 2002, The Associated Press reported clergy abuse cases overshadowed teacher-student sex abuse cases, though the report stated the school cases were not "uncommon."
"Some experts point to what they see as a permissive attitude toward such relationships and a double standard because cases involving female teachers and male students are treated less severely," AP reported.
"The dynamics of the teacher-student cases are often different than the classic sexual abuse cases because they seem to involve consenting relationships between teachers and students," Finkelhor, director of the Center for Crimes Against Children Research Center at the University of New Hampshire, told the wire service. ". . . Clear boundaries have to be enforced."
Nan Stein, director of a project on sexual harassment in schools at the Center for Research on Women at Wellesley College, cited far fewer cases annually than Shakeshaft; she said she believes "several hundred" cases of student-teacher sexual abuse cases occur each year.
And six years earlier Education Week searched newspaper archives and databases, finding 244 cases in a six-month period. The allegations in that short 1998 study ranged from unwanted touching to sexual relationships and serial rape.
Currently, there is no single agency that tracks such incidents. And only a few national surveys, as of 2002, had been conducted on the subject of teacher-student sexâand most of them were sexual harassment studies.
"None of these studiesâeither singly or as a groupâanswer all of the reasonable questions that parents, students, educators, and the public ask about educator sexual misconduct," says Shakeshaft, in her draft report. "And certainly do not provide information at a level of reliability and validity appropriate to the gravity of these offenses."
The Death of Outrage?
What is also different about the school cases is the level of secondary media coverage it hasâor, in this case, hasn'târeceived.
Yet, media coverage of the Catholic priest abuse scandal was nearly wall-to-wall; every major television news program, every major newspaper and wire service, and most mass market magazines covered the scandal relentlessly.
But, reports the National Catholic Register, a leading faith publication, "a search on the media database LexisNexis for "Charol Shakeshaft" turned up no articles eight days after" the Education Week report.
An online search by NewsMax.com found similar disinterest. Google.com's news database, for example, returned just four entries for "Charol Shakeshaft;" two were Catholic publications.
The Indianapolis Star and Christian Science Monitor only briefly mentioned Shakeshaft's data; the later publication couched her remarks about schools in an article primarily rehashing the Catholic church abuse scandal.
Yahoo.com's news search engine returned only three; two were similar stories from the Indianapolis Star.
Catholic leaders especially are wondering why more coverage of the issue, as well as more action by government education officials, hasn't been forthcoming, in the weeks since the Education Week story.
"If the country is serious about [sexual abuse of children] as a national issue, we have to direct our resources to where the problem is worse," Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, an New York-based Catholic advocacy group, told the Register. "But instead what we get is a selective indignation that suggests there is an agenda here."
Indeed, even some judges express a more permissive attitude regarding teacher-pupil sex.
Case in point: In Hackensack, N.J., in the spring of 2002, a state judge sentenced 43-year-old teacher Pamela Diehl-Moore to probation for having sex with a seventh-grade student who was only 13 at the time.
Though prosecutors had argued for jail for Diehl-Moore, the judge in the case, Bruce A. Gaeta, disagreed. He put the onus on the student, saying the encounters with his teacher may only have been a way for him to "satisfy his sexual needs."
According to court transcripts, as reported by AP, Gaeta said, "I don't see anything here that shows this young man has been psychologically damaged by her actions. And don't forget, this was mutual consent."
He was referred to a judicial disciplinary committee.
That is one identifiable double-standard: relationships between male students and female teachers. For one, say experts, most school sexual abuse occurs between male teachers and female students. For another, male students tend to report sex with female teachers far less; they are treated less severely because boys see little wrong with the acts.
"I think our society sort of says to the boy: 'Congratulations, that's great. Everybody fantasizes about having a sexual relationship with an older woman,'" Bob Shoop, an education professor at Kansas State University and an expert witness in 30 court cases involving sexual abuse in schools, told AP.
Some of the most recent cases of school sexual abuse include the following:
In 2002, a California high school teacher ran off to Las Vegas with one of her 15-year-old students;
The same year, a Louisiana teacher was accused of having an affair with a 14-year-old student;
In the Bronx, one teacher was charged with the statutory rape of a 16-year-old former student;
In March, a 20-year-old Anderson, Ind. choir aide was charged with allegedly raping a 16-year-old female studentâthe two had a consensual relationship for three months before the girl asked to break it off;
A week earlier, an Indianapolis Public Schools substitute was caught having sex with a 15-year-old student in a vacant classroom;
A Washington state teacher was convicted of 10 counts of sexually exploiting minors by persuading them to pose nude for himâhe then uploaded some of the images to a Web site;
Also in Washington, state officials say 159 coaches of girls sports have been fired or reprimanded over the last decade for sexual misconduct;
An investigation found more than 60 instances in the last four years of Texas high school and middle school coaches losing jobs as a result of allegations of sexual misconduct.
Some states have specific laws banning sex between teachers and students. Many others, however, rely on statutory rape laws, but they sometimes do little to protect student-teacher sex that is consensual or between an adult and minor child close to the age of consent.
For her part, Shakeshaft believes more study of the issue is needed, but that officials and educators should take the available data in her report to heart now.
"Some individual districts might have changed some policies or had an in-service workshop, but really there hasn't been any systematic response to this issue," she said.
"It isn't as if we need to stop and wait for a study. I do believe we know enough to take some actions."
Our wonderful secular education system at work.
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