You are right that people are the problem and are allowing this with their ignorance. However, keep in mind that eduction program has been designed by the government, GOVERNMENT GETS WHAT GOVERNMENT PAYS FOR Government wants idiots for citizens, government gets idiots for citizens. It is done slowly, incrementally, so nobody notices, and those who do are called crazy conspiracy people.
1. Every new dollar printed or digital, reduces purchasing power by an incremental amount. What do you suppose counterfeiting is? Because it's a loan that must be paid back, is immaterial. The value of that loan is derived from the debauchment of purchasing power from existing dollar holders. Banks simply have the authority to loan out The Peoples money without compensating the people!! This is theft, and backwards. Now you're engaging in semantics and tap dancing to avoid the issue. Please explain to me where the value of newly created money is derived from? 2. Modern banking is NOT capitalism. Capitalism implies consensual exchange between two or more parties. Modern banking is rooted in fraud and theft. Banks loan out the peoples money by debauchement, without their consent, and reap the profits. Banks and borrowers consent to this. But not the owner of actual capital being loaned out. 3. See above. Our banking system is far from capitalist. It's more fascist, then capitalist because it coerces a major party to every transaction. A socialized banking system rewards the people who actually own the capital being loaned out. Which is exactly what you argued to begin with. You believe in just compensation only when it suits you. Interesting, eh?
Everything works until it doesn't? Remember Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Ireland? Look, you cheerleaders of the system are cheerleading America right over a cliff. The interest on the total stock of debt is killing the economy. And the Federal debt has past the point of no return. We HAVE to end debt-backed money. That's the only solution. There is NO growth. The marginal productivity of debt has been flushed down the toilet.
Lets get back on track: 60 Trillion in debt-backed money, in existence. At an average interest rate of 3% = 1.8 Trillion the economy pays each year to bankers, in interest costs alone (~10% of GDP). "Mature", "slow-growth economies"????? US Debt-to-GDP well over 100%, and growing. Greece, anyone??? Since 2009, US added ~1 Trillion to the national debt, every single year. http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd_debttothepenny.htm Interest cost on the national debt consumes all GDP growth. While we add ~1 Trillion a year to the principle... http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/charts/charts_expense.htm
1. Like I have said already, you're neglecting a basic rule of double-entry bookkeeping. Specifically, the value of the newly created money is derived from the value-added produced by the project which is being financed with the loan. This is what makes it different to counterfeiting. Since you keep insisting on your interpretation, we're going to have to agree to disagree. 2. Don't understand this at all. For a loan to exist, you need to have a borrower and a lender, who agree to enter into the arrangement. If that is not the very definition of consensual, I don't know what is. Moreover, if you're a lender who is not happy with banks lending out your money, take your money out of the bank and lend it out yourself. You have the freedom to do all these things and that's what capitalism is all about. I would argue that the government-dominated system that you're advocating is a lot more restrictive and, to use your terminology, "fascist". It's the sort of system that was in place in the Soviet Union. See above. I believe in just compensation, period.
Wow things have changed on the site. I have been enjoying the sunshine and rest and by chance happened on this question. Tragic to hear about the porn industry limping along - what will all the failed traders do now with the time on their hands (among other things) I wonder? So my answer would be: I am not using bad in the judgement sense but in the "never to be paid back sense" AKA worthless debt. (It is bad in the sense that it can not be paid back.) So my question is in this thread, the debt owed is 60n Trillion (it is actually higher but lets use that number) and the Money supply is much less. Hmm, how is that possible. How can we have more debt than money? Some of that debt must be worthless since money is the "store of value". How can a country have more debt than money or value? I think that the innovation that Gentle Ben introduced was swaps. He created a big pot of money in the FED and swapped it for worthless bonds that appeared on bank balance sheets. The reasoning would be that the deflationary hole (2008) of worthless bonds could be held as a book entry forever and would not circulate. The banks would be bailed out and the world economic system would be saved. Doesn't look like it is working though. In the US each state has representation. Money kept in the US will eventually make some states poor and others wealthy. But in time the poor states can exert pressure in government to change things and restore the balance. Their vote is the same as everyone else in the US. When debt is forced on other countries in return for goods or services they shipped on good faith into the US, there is no representation or ability to address imbalances in world goods trading. In 1971 when the great balancer of world trade was ditched an explosion of worthless debt appeared. Nowadays they trade debt in offsetting fashion but as we saw in 2008, that is not immune to problems either. Lowering the interest rate delays the inevitable but it will come. Even Ben knows that today.
Yes it is on purpose IMO (whether is actually 10 guys with funny hats meeting annually or just the way of the human organizing principles is immaterial) and the end is the same one as on the rocky and bullwinkle show - control of the vorld. There is a problem with wealth, beyond a certain point it can't increase happiness. Status takes over as a leader (Maslow) and ego dominates over others. It doesn't fill the void but it is fun to pretend. In 50 years, rich and poor we all share the same fate so their is no gain as the preacher said, only vanity. This has been the problem for 10000 years as we looked for someone reliable to store our community wealth in an honest fashion looking out for the community over lining their own pockets. Wo-Mankind has not yet solved that problem and are still working on it the same way - religion, banking, CEOs, bilderberg meetings, media control, political correctness, human rights abuses, global climate change, (compare the different theme in Ukraine and Israel wars for example), leadership courses, etc. Jackson won a fight and then they won in 1913 and immediately financed world wars to take control, putting Jackson's face on the money as a sarcastic dig IMO. That war has never ended, only the theatre and combatants changed. Now they fight their own people since the "middle class dream" has ended and their true purpose comes to light IMO. We are still working on the problem of altruistic leadership. The atomic bomb changed things completely for a while. Germany and Japan are still ruled by their conquerors and have lost their gold in trust. NATO, IMF, UN, - if you had all the money in the world, what could you buy for it? Well THEY did buy it!
Varying degrees of understanding in this discussion. A class-action lawsuit against the Fed would bring this discussion to the TV and newspapers. All Americans are plaintiffs, they just don't know it yet. How did $17 trillion in debt occur? Why does every infant automatically owe $60,000 just for being born?