Software Engineer: $7,000 a year in China, $8,400 in India... $90,000 in U.S.

Discussion in 'Economics' started by kmiklas, Apr 13, 2017.

  1. i960

    i960

    Without getting deep into it there's a certain approach to writing and designing software that requires a culturally driven approach of thinking outside the box, questioning authority, and a strong understanding of abstract concepts and how they all fit together.

    If you've worked with predominantly Indian developers for any length of time you'll find that many of their cultural approaches to problem solving are distinctly at odds to what makes great software and robust design.
     
    #71     Apr 16, 2017
    Simples likes this.
  2. i960

    i960

    Because it isn't the same talent whatsoever?

    Some of us have worked decades in this industry and have seen the resulting damage offshoring has caused. If you think it's anywhere near the same quality you're straight up smoking crack.
     
    #72     Apr 16, 2017
    Zzzz1, comagnum and Sig like this.
  3. Sig

    Sig

    You won't listen! The offshore guy that's worth $110k is getting paid close to $110k. They're here on H1B visas, they're working for Google in India getting market rates minus a little bit for cost of living differential. The ones getting paid $18k generally aren't worth even that, they only get it because there's always another rube who doesn't understand software dev and just can't believe he's not getting a great deal (I was one of those rubes 10 years ago). You keep saying "the same talent", it's not the same talent! Believe me, this is hard earned experience. If you want to learn the hard way as well then be my guest, but don't waste our time asking questions and then refusing to listen to the answers with no other backing than your incorrect intuition.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
    #73     Apr 16, 2017
  4. LacesOut

    LacesOut

    I know a 35 year old carpenter in Switzerland...he works for a company building chairs and tables by hand. Nothing exceptional.
    Works Monday-Thursday and makes $120,000 Francs a year.
     
    #74     Apr 16, 2017
  5. Zzzz1

    Zzzz1

    China yes, India no. If you ever traveled to both countries you would see the stark difference.

    Re your first issue, which company in SV is currently run by a former Indian H1B holder? I don't know of any. And if, does the company rely on H1B visa holders for its key development? I highly doubt it. Let's not conflate the issue by racial profiling. The argument was never that developers of Indian origin are no good. The argument was that cheap H1B laborers from India (and other places) are no good.

     
    #75     Apr 16, 2017
  6. Zzzz1

    Zzzz1

    It's like playing music. You get top talent from Asia with very solid base skills. "If you want a virtuoso who transcends playing ability but reaches into the heart and soul do not hire Asians". This is what countless famous composers and conductors said. Of course they are not racist in that they reject ALL Asian musicians, they acknowledge that there are rare talents in any culture but they simply state the truth when it comes to focus in different cultures. It is simply a fact that most Asian cultures take the "play it safe attitude" , when they recommend children which subjects to major in, and advice in decision making. In Western cultures it's more like "work hard, play hard" which produces more total failures but also more superstars.

     
    #76     Apr 16, 2017
    d08 likes this.
  7. jj90

    jj90

    This x10000000000. If one has never travelled and stayed in such countries and not worked in tech, you will never grasp this. The H1B holders are the best of the bunch.
     
    #77     Apr 16, 2017
  8. Cuddles

    Cuddles

    I'm not sure that price is accurate. The Indian engineers I've worked with I often wonder if they have a degree to be honest and more often than not are learning on the job. The Chinese are pretty competent, and the Americans are a mixed bag. I don't think US companies are vetting these offshore companies and wouldn't be surprised if they are plagued with fraud. The problem I have are these mom and pop "universities" in some 3rd world countries churning out so called "engineers" who are more accurately techs and would't pass mustard if ABET attempted to accredit them.

    USCIS should at least require an FE passing grade before handing out work visas to engineers.
     
    #78     Apr 16, 2017
  9. Data security holds the key.

    The trick to IT is to hire people smart enough to maintain the systems, while not being smart enough to see through the lies.
     
    #79     Apr 16, 2017
  10. ET180

    ET180

    You might already know this, but the amount of time that it takes someone to get a green card is dependent on which country they are from. I have an Indian friend who has been waiting 10 years for his green card...still does not have it. Meanwhile, other engineers from Bangladesh of whom don't have any special talent that could not have been sourced locally get their green cards in a year or two. You're definitely correct, it's a totally screwed up system. Talent and need should determine the amount of time that it takes to get green card or citizenship. Not some random quota based on country. Also, H1Bs are being abused, they were never meant to bring on people of equal talent. They were only intended to help full an unmet need that could not have been found locally. Trouble is that companies don't seem to be challenged on their justification for hiring H1B.
     
    #80     Apr 17, 2017
    Simples and FireWalker like this.