Software Engineer: $7,000 a year in China, $8,400 in India... $90,000 in U.S.

Discussion in 'Economics' started by kmiklas, Apr 13, 2017.

  1. i960

    i960

    Yeah the number of ad-hoc examples here of "here, look at this one case where offshoring wasn't even noticed as a problem" is quite annoying. There's also a clear anti-American tendency with some folks and it's bleeding through into "there's just as many sub-par American devs as offshore ones!" which is just crap logic.

    Anyone with a *clue* who has worked in this industry knows typical "offshore" is not coincident with quality or innovation whatsoever. If you do not realize this, understand it, or why, then the issue isn't that it's false it's that you're missing a clue.

    At this point it's an outright scam with middle men skimmers like TCS and Infosys laughing all the way to the bank. They're also relying on management structures they've helped construct (within the companies they provide workers for) to keep the scam going and hire only along cultural lines. There's a ton of shit I don't agree with Trump about, but this is one case where it's immensely clear what's actually going on (and has been going on for years).
     
    #101     Apr 17, 2017
    Gambit, Simples and Zzzz1 like this.
  2. I am not a programmer,I would say not many.Like with everything you can go for a known brand or make a choice based on reputation or go cheap route.
    Mileage may vary

    Very recently i needed to cross check local programmer's qualifications and I tried to compare them with other countries in Eastern Europe.I began looking at various websites and was kind of taken how good some of them are like the examples i gave above.
    Up to this point i knew very little about various competitions.
    Locally here in Budapest Morgan Stanley has their programming outsourcing outfit.They recruit from universities and i got to understand their methods,how they spot talent early.
     
    #102     Apr 17, 2017
  3. Look at that, everyone is saying the same thing.
     
    #103     Apr 17, 2017
  4. ironchef

    ironchef

    Your point is well taken and I am not going to argue.

    However, most H1B holders eventually became US PR/citizens and are no longer H1B holders so you wouldn't find former H1B holders running US tech firms.

    Best to you.
     
    #104     Apr 17, 2017
  5. Zzzz1

    Zzzz1

    I included former in my statement

     
    #105     Apr 17, 2017
  6. Cuddles

    Cuddles

  7. Sig

    Sig

    Well technically they are "former H1B holders" right?
     
    #107     Apr 17, 2017
    Simples and Zzzz1 like this.
  8. Zzzz1

    Zzzz1

    I think it is safe to conclude that those in the know, either informed individuals or those working in the industry, all agree on one thing: top talent demands top dollar. Whether that be a Russian coder, a Chinese hacker, a German network engineer, or an American data scientist. We also know as a matter of fact the original intent of the H1B visa, it is clearly stated in writing. It was designed to fill the gap where American companies could not hire enough American talent that required advanced degrees and highly desirable skills. Those visa holders should have been highly paid for the defined required and demanded skill sets. That today's H1B Visa holders get paid below average is a proof that those are not the type of individuals the program was intended to target. How could it happen? Well, loopholes and some at the top looking away is the only explanation how someone can do something a law, regulation, or program was clearly NOT designed for. And what motivation do those at the top who look away usually have? Of course, either financial or power incentives or both.

    Why are we still discussing the obvious? I would find it much more interesting to stretch our brains and think about how average American workers can be protected from low level engineer dumping from abroad while at the same time making it much easier for top international talent to be equipped with American Visa and work permits so they can be up and running quickly in the US if they desire to be there and if they are in demand by companies. Those top talents are competitive and earn at least as much as their American counterparts hence there should be no fear of wage dumping. But how to delineate those two categories of workers and ensure one group domestically is protected and that companies don't get a chance to continue to get away on the cheap while directly harming American engineers, and on the other side keeping the top bracket competitive. What's the point for foreign students to study in the US if the best have a very hard time finding a job because of visa issues? The American education even at top schools is not any better than at Tokyo University, Beijing University, LSE, Humboldt, Lausanne, UST HK and plenty others.
     
    #108     Apr 18, 2017
    nooby_mcnoob and Simples like this.