>go take a logic class. As a student of logic, I'm not even sure that those of you arguing actually disagree. I haven't heard anyone claim that every Tom, Dick and Harry will be able to go buy a black box and turn 50K into $1,000,000. Hitman argued against this and he is completely correct. Even if we suppose that such a box existed, the owners aren't going to be dumb enough to put it on the market if for no other reason than it would ruin the system. Everyone can't have the secret because then there is no secret -- in would only work in an imbalance. On the other hand, those that dismiss the value of computers as Cesko appears to with his "computing power is irrelevant to trading success" surely can't be serious. If it's as "irrelevant" as you say, let's take yours away from you and see how you do. It's a simple number crunching fact that even as a end of day swing trader, if you are left to charting your own graphs from the newspaper you will be unable to cover the territory and be as selective as you will using RealTick. History (including Market and New Market Wizards) is FULL of examples of traders who GOT RICH exploiting computing power(can you say "arbitrage", "pairs trading", etc.?) Computers are a tool. They produce only as well as the craftsmen who design and use them. There are some craftsmen out there right now who are using their tools to KICK YA'LLs **ses, and there are others who are getting their butts handed to them by some point and figure, end of day, newspaper data Grandma. JB