Socioeconomics of the bible

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Gringinho, Oct 4, 2008.

Are you a loyal servant and seeker of universally absolute truth

  1. Yes! Here, master; I am rightful, selfless and will serve you...

    1 vote(s)
  2. No! I seek freedom of thought, individual freedom.

    5 vote(s)
  3. *Sob*... I have no choice, I am but a little rat in the maze looking for cheese.

    1 vote(s)
  4. USA! USA! USA! USA!

    3 vote(s)
  1. PS! Should correct to "rat in a maze looking for cheesy truth" in the poll above. :D

    The christian bible says that you shall count your blessings in heaven, and NOT seek out personal wealth...
    Now, in practice some "lucky" others should count their "blessings" in gold on earth for this.

    Mayer Amschel Rothschild: "Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws."

    "Morality" is pretty ingenious, especially when bolstered with Hollywoodian special effects. :)
    Create a system for funnelling wealth and world resources - natural, labour, financial, cultural, military etc ...

    The Supreme Being, great architect and creator of universally absolute truth will be the smiling benefactor upon you chosen ones with his omniscience to bless you with insider insight into the markets.
    "To cause high prices, all the Federal Reserve Board will do will be to lower the rediscount rate..., producing an expansion of credit and a rising stock market; then when ... business men are adjusted to these conditions, it can check ... prosperity in mid career by arbitrarily raising the rate of interest. It can cause the pendulum of a rising and falling market to swing gently back and forth by slight changes in the discount rate, or cause violent fluctuations by a greater rate variation and in either case it will possess inside information as to financial conditions and advance knowledge of the coming change, either up or down. This is the strangest, most dangerous advantage ever placed in the hands of a special privilege class by any Government that ever existed. The system is private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money. They know in advance when to create panics to their advantage, They also know when to stop panic. Inflation and deflation work equally well for them when they control finance."

    "The financial system [...] has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That board administers the finance system by authority of [...] a purely profiteering group. The system is private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money."

    Everyone, lets just be happy! Turn the other cheek, to avoid rug-burns on the first one. :)
    [size=-2]A 101 Feel-Good message from the Ministry of Love, co-sponsored by the Ministry of Truth.[/size]
  2. "The devil is in the details..."

    Understand this:
    • when you keep religion inwards looking and acting, it works well and strengthens you personally.
    • when you make religion outwards acting and impose on others, you corrupt everything around you - including yourself.

    For strengthening yourself and your belief system, religion is one thing - voluntary and akin to truly "free markets" and Laissez-faire. But when you start organizing, scheming and shaping your surroundings with your religion - then you are creating elitist social Darwinism and polarizing everyone around you. You might look fancy in your Bentley or with all your jewellery bling, but many will hate you, and everyone are looking to stab you in your back and take it from you. You will never have security, and live with constant paranoia.

    Therefore the notion of "universally absolute truth" is the most corrupting force you can ever imagine, emboldening aggressors into their authoritarian elitist self-righteous self-aggrandizing rules. Logic works one-way into argumentation and reducing the focus to a narrow plan or path, it is reductionist in essence. Therefore logic makes you lose your sight on your surroundings, unless you constantly evaluate new input from your environment - and even then you are only looking at separate aspects, skewing your conclusions from one bias to another. Thus, the singular logical reasoning process, creating strong principles and pig-headedness, is against evolution, adaptation and sustainable development. That is how so much cruelty has been done "in the name of science" and "in the name of a Supreme Being".

    To be "fair and balanced", retain objectivity and neutrality - personal integrity and respect for others, keeping freedom - you need to be constantly aware of your surroundings, the complete system, and always include this in your decision making process. That is how you successfully create trust, do business and keep living - until you decide to switch back to corruption, fraud, deceit and back-stabbing.

  3. Gringo, I think I see your point for systems science. It is to have no absolutes, so that people can be free to accept new informations if it becomes discovered. When peoples are not allowed to free think, but must accept a doctrine as truth and complete, then that is when groups of peoples can be controlled by a few elite. These elite profit from control of peoples, so these elite have to use corruption and fraud to keep power to their side. And this slow down the progress of all.
    But how can systems science be sure all parts of the whole are true? Like the saying (gaming the system) , how does the systems science stay free of corruption?
  4. I like it when people interact by reasoning and thinking like you just did there... it's a rare pleasure, so thanks!

    Well, this is the point - you will never have complete information.
    The world is constantly changing, and the problem normally arises because surroundings are dynamic, but you somehow choose to exclude parts of your surroundings - i.e censoring them from your system. Therefore, you are always able to consider everything that interacts with your systems - even indirectly and to varying degrees. It is basically just being aware, staying with an open mind and considering your surroundings all the time - i.e adapting and evolving in balance with the rest of your environment. When you then choose to interact - you do so consensually, building up the trust through creating external social structures, but not limiting these by shutting off input from others.

    So, what is the difference between logics and systems science? The difference is that you don't establish absolutes for your surroundings - i.e externally, as with morality. Instead you focus on strengthening your inner and personal integrity and use this projected as ethics in all your interactions. That means that the inner integrity of yourself - i.e honesty, objectivity etc - will be projected outwards through your consensual structuring and interactions with others --- building the trust necessary to keep systems, social structures sustainable through the development.

    This is the fundamental difference to elitist social Darwinism - where secrecy of information, denialism, negationism, fear, chaos and corruption is their "power" for social control. They deceive everyone by preaching "order and control to chaos", when they really are looking for power to control their surroundings for their own benefit. This is authoritarian and totalitarian aggressive behaviour - not sustainable - and therefore subject to systemic cycles of greatness decaying into destruction - replaced by others.

    The difference to the elitist control system is an all-inclusive direct democracy where there is no censorship, but effective and strong structures for trust through neutrality, objectivity and no self-interests --- i.e through tools and machines that do our consensual bidding, without thinking for themselves ... machines can't think, they just do what we order when we press the "start button." Computers are much more effective in performing this procedural bureaucratic processing of people's decisions, than the corruptible human officials, and as long as the systems are open for review, audit and consensual change - we get complete trust in the system as a benefit.
  5. I see, it is not about creating corruption free system science, but about system science allowing peoples to discover corruptions by having systems science. Being allowed to be aware, being allowed to express a different point of view without being afraid.
  6. But it IS about using systems science as a tool to construct trust, and consider all your surroundings continuously... thereby enabling you to create corruption-free systems, social structures --- like I explained in my edited post above.

    Systems science itself is just a meta-tool for reasoning about systems,
    just like logic is used to infer/grow uni-directional structural relations within systems according to rigid models.

    It's because you need both of these tools, but you need to know how to use them - i.e logic is used between entities/phenomenons, while systems science is the discretionary inclusion into a system and model. If you start using logics from within one system to reach outwards over into the surroundings - then you are corrupting and imposing one system on others.

    This understanding directly translates into understanding markets, but that is way beyond this topic of religion. I had some posts here some years ago on how I was using neural networks, fuzzy logic, hidden markov models, scripting and more to model markets... i.e get better understanding for my personal insight of making market decisions - not for me to control the markets. See the difference?

    It is all about maintaining trust, respecting others and adapting to market conditions - not making markets or my surroundings adapt to me, they do that voluntarily anyway... that is what is individual freedom and Laissez-faire free markets, not encumbered under strict controls for funnelling the resources and wealth -- creating systemic bias and corruption, quelling freedom.
  7. What I questioned is ( corruption free) Maybe I am negative, but it seems someone or some group in history always try to gain power, and have more. That is nature? So I understand what you are saying I think. You are saying there will always be corruption to gain power, but having systems science will filter this corruption, and make people more aware, and more trusting because they know system science will encourage truth?
  8. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.

    As long as there is no trust, but chaos - then someone will falsely preach of "bringing order to the chaos and controlling it" - appealing to the fear in people. That is how they establish systemic bias.

    Systems science help us understand systems and reason about systems. Logic helps us reason among entities/phenomenons.

    Systems science does indeed encourage more information about systems, because it is open-minded and inclusive, not reductionist like logic. Occam's razor is not for understanding complete systems, but the relations between already established system components.'s razor

    In markets, you can draw the parallel to non-linearity and non-linear regression analysis, versus the more solid linear correlation that is usually employed. Systems science is an interdisciplinary method to give integrity, strength of reasoning to complete systems - a different look than the radiating logic which subjectively expands itself from single entities.

    This is basic epistemology and phenomenology, but can be applied to anything - just like logic, although logic will fail/corrupt your knowledge if applied erroneously -- i.e MACD, CCI etc will not give you insight into markets or consistently help your trading decisions. It is fundamentally impossible, unless you forced the markets to behave according to MACD, CCI etc - which would cyclically fail because of the unsustainability, as we can witness now with the economic meltdown.

    If you want to establish control over a system, you destabilize it or destroy it - then you build up the pieces according to your "rules" and "logic"... Ever been to boot-camp? Whatever doesn't destroy you, makes you stronger - as perceived within that system --- i.e you are no longer a threat, but "got with the program" and start serving the system. :)
    [size=-3]Those voting for patriotism, are of course the corrupted mighty-mice, having already found their price-tags and so(u)ld what they have to the "powers".[/size]

  9. Systems science will help people see ALL influences that are creating fear and chaos, and how this fear and chaos gives control to some people over others. So just by understanding this, (how this fear is created) then peoples will not be victim of fear and chaos, and learn to think freely. They will understand how their emotions maybe are being manipulated. With this understanding, then they are not fearful, and not chaotic, and less able to be controlled by anyone.
    Like the saying, "The truth shall set you free" :)
    Interesting links you provide Gringo.
  10. Hehe, you got all the essentials...
    Just remember that "truth" is internal - not external --- there is no "universally absolute truth", but trust and belief that is reached through consensus (interactions, systems science and logic) and that you can voluntarily integrate into yourself. That is freedom of thought - and it is very rare today... seemingly non-existent among "the masses" or through the systemic bias and corruption of education, scholarships, research project funding, grants, awards, careers, positions and promotions... then politics, family hegemonies etc.

    The brain is an important organ that grows as you develop into adulthood. However, space is limited and after the neurons are structured in your grey matter - it is INVESTED into that knowledge... so when you sit and watch mind-numbing reality-shows or listen to celebrity "news" without newsworthiness... your mind is being polluted, corrupted by the scarce occupation of skull and bones real-estate. So be careful what you spend your time sifting through, and always evaluate ALL your options for what you CAN be doing... This heavy investment is also the natural reason why people are pig-headedly stubborn, can't drop bad habits or get out from religious cults etc - along with the investment of the external social structures of these environments - i.e morality, pressure, shame, guilt etc.

    Sometimes stopping briefly, taking your bearings and understanding your surroundings is what makes you free, stronger and more successful without wondering what is wrong with you... not fearing anyone, but believing and knowing with yourself your own worth and trusting your knowledge. That understanding will make you a successful trader and friend of anyone.

    See also

    Ever since the first time I took the test in 1994 I've been a mix of ENTJ and ENFJ with the values of E56 N100 TF0-1 J78
    I am never apologetic for myself, because I know how I work and what I do - I have ethical standards, but no corrupting morality.
    #10     Oct 4, 2008