So who's still beating it with butterflies/condors?

Discussion in 'Options' started by agev, Jan 8, 2008.

  1. agev


    I was making an informative thread of possible results of butterfly positions during volatile markets, but as usual, no one could intelligently respond to the post because they know I'm right, so they turn to ad hominen alternatives. Very typical of elitetraders. But I described all your scenarios to the dot.

    If you're hedging every swing of your fly, you're not making much, if anything at all, since the hedging costs are drinking away your juice.

    If you don't hedge but just "sit and watch" with a stubborn attitude, then you're just riding a roller coaster with your P&L and hoping everything magically pans out at expiration regardless of what's going on in between. But with that kind of discipline, you probably *should* continue to trade these things because you're a trader who never adjust your errors, and only the wings save your butt when you're wrong.

    Or if you're not doing flies but "iron" condors with very wide strikes, then you're just tying up a lot of capital for barely pocket change. You may be taking minimal risk, but you are also receiving minimal gain (or perhaps even none). Almost akin to investing in treasuries.

    So some of you ask what do I prefer to trade?

    Something that's very suitable for these times. It's right in front of you. If you're that perplexed, play scrabble or learn to identify backward appellations.

    Read and learn.
    #21     Jan 10, 2008
  2. Do you have a link to such a request? I don't think anyone has asked what you trade.
    #22     Jan 10, 2008
  3. 1. New member using "as usual" ?
    2. We are LINING UP to share our strategies with you ; WAIT FOR IT !
    3. Nobody here cares what you trade and what you think; you are here to provide liquidity for our trades
    4. CYOF ? BUZZY ?
    #23     Jan 10, 2008
  4. segv


    You are just another troll trying to kick the hive under an alias.

    We get it.

    No one here feels compelled to knock down your little straw men.

    RIP thread, RIP.
    #24     Jan 10, 2008
  5. bellamy


    Ah now I understand.Your mother read Sophocles to you when you were a child and ever since you have had zoomorphic identity issues.You think you are the Sphinx and have a right to attack anyone in your neighborhood.If I solve your riddle will you selfdestruct?LOL
    #25     Jan 10, 2008
  6. OK, thanks for settiin' us straight. You sound really bye.
    #26     Jan 10, 2008
  7. agev


    Hmmm... you disgruntled folks (segv, belldummy, etc) really show your performance in the markets with your responses. Maybe some of you really oughta go back to the drawing boards or trade something else if the fly is really not working out that greatly for you.

    But you're mostly poor traders in the first place, so it may be hard so you're stuck with this.

    If you knew how to trade better, you wouldn't need the fly. Face it. You have a weaker perception of the markets and don't know where it's going. Without wings, your ass would be toast, and if you don't hedge, you're probably the kind with no discipline who wouldn't survive if you put on anything other than a winged fly (which is really an option position with like training wheels so you don't fall that hard since you don't know how to do any better). lol

    And you are mad? Oh right, because it's true.

    But instead of getting riled up, perhaps you should pay attention to new things. If not, that's why traders of your particular levels never reach anywhere. You just get angry but refuse to hear advice. So how's that fly working out for you today?

    Ooops, made you mad again.

    Read and learn.
    #27     Jan 10, 2008

  8. I GOT IT.....Mav's Christmas trees!!!!! :p


    point is you didn't start the thread with "what works best in a high vol environment" you asked if any was "still"beating it with flys/condors. There are other strats not mentioned (ex a backspread...perhaps diagonals) that can work quite well right now and to say a butterfly is NOT a high reward strat is bogus. It is a LOW risk..LOW probability...VERY high reward trade. and as pointed out it can be directional...embeded with short verticals etc to increase the probability of a win.

    This forum is for sharing (freely) ideas and the regular contributors have done so without the games you want to play. Put up( big bucks can't fail trade) or just STFU and leave. :mad: :mad:
    #28     Jan 10, 2008
  9. OH ...thats different...YOU KNOW where the markets are going.........

    I will be reading with great interest when you decide to enlighten us all :)
    #29     Jan 10, 2008
  10. Cutten


    What if you want to bet on an extended trading range, isn't a butterfly/condor a good position to express that view? Couldn't you avoid the problem of arbitrary expiration dates by simply exiting when the market is in the middle of the range. I don't see why hedging would make sense, when your market view *wants* to be long at the lows and short at the highs of the range. If your view is wrong then of course you will lose money, but that is true of all trading positions. Also could you explain what is "stubborn" about executing a strategy consistently when the market is continuing to do what you expected all along, and why is it bad to use wings to limit your risk.

    Also I don't see how it is hoping everything magically pans out - in that case, ALL positions are about hoping everything magically pans out. A hedger hopes his hedging magically saves him money rather than getting him whipsawed to death. Someone trading volatility hopes they don't fade a 1987 style vol spike, or keep buying during a 2003-2006 volatility crush. Mean reversion traders hope they don't run into an LTCM etc
    #30     Jan 10, 2008