So where are all the IRS-Obama Scandle People now that the Truth is coming out?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by piezoe, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. piezoe

    piezoe

    Sadly Jem, personal opinions carry little weight in the law unless they are the opinions of judges or juries handing down a ruling. You will notice in the link I gave you that the important feature is "...in response to probative evidence" You might rejoinder here, if you are clever enough, with the probative evidence (not opinion nor conjecture, nor supposition, nor charges) against Lerner. And remember Jem, taking the fifth cannot be used as evidence.)

    I wouldn't hold my breath, were I you, waiting for the Supreme Court to rule that government employees give up their Constitutional rights.
    I don't think even Scalia would go that far, though I'm not too sure of that.:D
     
    #161     Jul 10, 2013
  2. pspr

    pspr

    Good info, jem. Your link has an extra 'This' that breaks it. It should be:

    http://www.pointoforder.com/2013/05/22/taking-the-fifth-before-congress/
     
    #162     Jul 10, 2013
  3. piezoe

    piezoe

    Jem, did you read Ohio vs. Reiner yet? That's a very important recent ruling in regard to the fifth amendment.
     
    #163     Jul 10, 2013
  4. jem

    jem

    Very trick response piezoe/

    I was not pointing out that the scholar was correct... I was pointing out that area of the law is unresolved.

    Its interesting you are now pointing out personal opinions don't matter. That is what I was telling you when you were making your "broad" interpretations. We need the court to tell us if public employee can assert the 5th outside of criminal proceedings... partiularly when congress is doing oversight.

    How can congress do good oversight if public employees don't have to give the sight?


    Note. I read your case it cites Hoffman... one of the big cases in this area of the law.

    That was a special grand jury case... not a non criminal oversight hearing.

     
    #164     Jul 12, 2013
  5. piezoe

    piezoe

    Jem, the Court has been very clear on this. Fifth Amendment rights apply to both criminal AND civil legal proceedings.
     
    #165     Jul 13, 2013
  6. jem

    jem

    #166     Jul 19, 2013
  7. piezoe

    piezoe

    No you can't. A hearing of your Home Owners Association is not legal proceeding. But you can refuse to participate. :D

    You are drifting into the ridiculous, by the way.
     
    #167     Jul 19, 2013
  8. jem

    jem

    no you drifted into the ridiculous when you declared / implied the existance of a law which does not exist...with no support... so I pointed out how absurd your statement was...

    so now... show us the sup ct law showing us you can take the 5th at a Congressional oversight hearing.... particularly when you work for the govt. ( remember the oversight hearing is not a court rooom, it is not a criminal or civil legal proceeding)
     
    #168     Jul 19, 2013
  9. pspr

    pspr

    I think the question is not really about whether you can plead the 5th Amendment not to answer when questioned before Congress. But, are you required to provide answers to questions posed to you when called before Congress at all? Can you just remain silent as you can if the FBI asks you questions?

    If it is only the rights afforded by the 5th Amendment that allows you to be silent when questioned by the FBI or the police, then it would apply in any situation where the government would prefer to force one to provide answers.
     
    #169     Jul 19, 2013
  10. piezoe

    piezoe

    It applies specifically to cases where the Court has ruled as in for example civil and criminal legal proceedings including testifying under oath before Congress. The Court has also ruled in Miranda v. Arizona that it applies in other cases as well, such as the examples you mentioned. (Both 5th and 6th Amendments apply in Miranda) There may be other cases where it might also apply that have not yet been tested in the courts, but we know for certain that it applies when someone is asked to testify under oath before Congress -- and that's been invoked many times now. I'm not at all sure about this, but possibly the first time the fifth amendment was invoked before Congress was in the McCarthy hearings.
     
    #170     Jul 19, 2013