Discussion in 'Trading' started by TILT2, May 17, 2013.
Yes, I profit!
No, I lose!
I started off with a prop firm and I've been profitable.
If I traded for myself, I don't know if I would have ever been profitable even after 3-4 years.
After about 9 months I was able to start consistently make money every month. I'm definitely up most days (15 to 17/20 days on average, with the others as just very minimal profit or scratch).
I do have lower days, which are blow outs, but I've been able to get back on my feet and knock it down again. I'm a spreader, and I don't buy the whole 1-tick loss/scratching mentality because the size I am aiming to achieve cannot simply be exited right away.
I have entire respect for people who trade for themselves. I don't know how I would have succeeded on my own.
Here's some stats from all my friends at the prop firm:
1. It took everyone about 8 to 10 months to start making money consistently every month
2. Everyone would have made money after 2-3 months if we learned to spread earlier. Everyone who makes money consistently with less than 3 years experience is a spreader. I do not know anyone who trades outright based purely on price action that isn't susceptible to huge blow-outs and wild swings daily.
3. The most success comes from the bulk of the Euro session and opening of the U.S. session. Asian-session times and the midst of U.S. cash is just bonus, really depends on the day and it's random whether or not fireworks are going off. Nevertheless, I still watch it like a hawk.
4. We all made money trading Bonds. No-one has succeeded in equities from the start. I have a friend now who was doing an equity spread, but he's now moved to the Bonds because they are a large family with heaps of cousins and room for creativity and seeing a large picture.
If I was to give advice for anyone out there:
# Do not put more than $20,000 into your trading account
# Your daily stop should be $500. You trade minimal size. 1 e-mini, or 1-tnote. But make sure you have enough ammunition in order to average 1-at-a-time into about 3 or 4 size. This will make you tremendously better. Develop your own feel and execution way for averaging, there's no secret
# For the love of God do not over-trade. If your stop is $500 then it's okay to be up $100-150 every day and stop trading. Look for high volume areas to trade, like Bund open etc.
# Do not leave positions running all the time for the sake of leaving it on. You are way too sh*t to do this. Trust me, even I'm too sh*t to really commit to this.
# Last piece of advice you'll need, stop trying to be a hero and have huge profit targets. No, you don't need to have a profit target of 10 and a stop of 3. You will get f*cking squeezed immensely, everywhere. It's okay to always take 2 T-note ticks on every trade in a region you're comfortable with. Stop trying to be a f*cking hero you don't have the pain or the ball size or mental capacity to watch it go 5 ticks on side, scratch, then stop you out.
Also many people ask when is the right time to size up? Well if you had to ask the question then you're not ready.
# You don't even think about adding size until you've had 3 months up. No questions asked.
# Also give up on the dream of trading unless you do 10-hour days at the start. The only reason why my stop is $10k right now (moving to about $20-25k soon) is because I did 16-18 hour shifts and I have a hunger to succeed.
In fact I made good profits in my start than I used to make now. The reason is simple as I used high lot size in my starting days and was lucky enough to get some winning trades but then the loss factor came and I started to use proper money management now.
how many successful directional traders your firm had ?
The reason why I started this thread is to find out how many percentage of traders make money constantly as time goes, but your reply is invaluable. When you said, 3 months up, you mean having been making money for 3 months?
What I've personally noticed is that:
1. Anyone who has started trading in 2011 and afterwards (so they started in either 2011, 2012, 2013) is NOT really successful just being directional and outright.
2. The only guys who truly are directional outright traders have been trading for 3 years plus. Basically they've seen a lot of market movements and a lot of permutations of moves and follow-throughs etc.
3. Almost everyone I know who started in 2011 and onwards has only had 'outright' success by heavily leaning on one leg. That is, they're watching a spread but they only want to participate in one leg.
I can say without a doubt, 90%++ of successful traders are spreaders that I know. As a spreader, I consider what I do as very primitive and very dumb. I believe that out-righters who are successful at direction are much better traders than I am as a spreader.
I'm sorry I just realised I posted a reply to the wrong thread but I couldn't delete it so I just left it there (past 30 minute period).
I made a typo as well, I meant that don't think about adding size until you've had 3 months in a row where you've finished green.
At my prop firm I see guys who want to jump the gun and follow after someone who is progressing but their months are like 2-months up, 2 months down, 1 month up, 1 month scratch, etc.
That's not healthy. I just say 3-months because that's a good 60 to 65 days where you've demonstrated consistency and success. Once again I apologise as I posted this is in the wrong thread.
That's all right. I still appreciate your posts and views.