Simple option trading question...

Discussion in 'Options' started by Mo06, Jun 21, 2015.

  1. I understand your theory but this makes the assumption about the magnitude of the move.
    Well chosen for me is the assumption that you will guess correctly each instance the magnitude of the move. I just think OTM is appropriate only when you expect a significant move in the underlying and feel strongly about it, then OTM presents the best opportunity assuming you choose a strike that encompasses this move.
     
    #31     Mar 20, 2016
  2. Your point assumes that it is all about the gamma. If I have a .9 delta, the gamma is meaningless to me. Gamma is a fucntion of moneyness where ATM options have the greatest gamma. Long term options have greater delta than short-term options at the same strike. Optionality really does not have any meaning to me so you might have to define what you mean by it. It is wrong to say options have no gamma if they are long term. Long term options have higher deltas than shorter-term options, the gamma is not as relevant.

    My point always is the general statements are more opinion than fact to say you do not see the point in using them. If you expect a stock to make a move over the next 5 to 6 months, why would you buy a 2 month option? Your trading bias is clouding your view/utility of options of longer term expirations.

    A LEAP option with almost 2 years to expiration with a delta of .9 has less risk than owning the stock outright and with .9 delta, gamma is irrelevant. Delta >gamma
     
    #32     Mar 20, 2016
  3. Of course we agree on this point, my original post in this thread specified that you have to have a thesis first, and that thesis implies: Magnitude of the move, time frame and stopping point. There is no magic "system" or "strategy" all boil downs to having a thesis first and then looking for the best way to execute it.
     
    #33     Mar 20, 2016
    El OchoCinco likes this.
  4. Below is TSLA APR 2016 and SEP 2016 Calls and Greeks.

    $265 strike is OTM and SEP $265 Call has delta of .38 versus .18 for April $265 Call. Gamma for both rounded is about the same.

    ATM Calls for both show .56 for APRIL $230 Calls and .58 for SEP $230 Calls. Gamma if taken out to 3 decimal spots will be extremely similar.

    But if you expect TSLA to rebound this price level and get back higher in the next 3 to 4 months then the APRIL options are not as attractive.



    upload_2016-3-20_21-41-52.png
     
    #34     Mar 20, 2016
  5. But I think we are simply agreeing on the same general idea so thank you for the discussion!
     
    #35     Mar 20, 2016
  6. You are correct when you said that for me is all about gamma, after all gamma is what makes an option an option. Of course you are free to structure a trade any way you want, but that doesn't mean you are making an efficient use of the instrument chosen to implement the trade.

    Optionality refers to the non-linear payout of an option. The higher the gamma of an option the higher the optionality it has and that is where options are superior to pretty much anything else out there. LEAPs have very little gamma on them (basically non existent) so the PnL profile is basically linear. There is nothing wrong with a linear PnL, but you are actually giving away the only advantage that options have. I have always puzzled at what use a LEAPS option can actually have for a trader.

    I have no issue with using options only for pure leverage, but if I have the chance I prefer to structure trades that take advantage of the non-linear nature of their PnL.
     
    #36     Mar 20, 2016
  7. Yes I agree, for a move in the 3 to 4 month time frame it is better to play the Sep options.
     
    #37     Mar 20, 2016
  8. The PNL profile for any option is linear if viewed to expiration. The gearing you talk about is only true with respect to an OTM option moving ATM money prior to expiration but has nothing to do with time? SEP options have gamma as do April and June options. You imply that only front month options have gamma which is incorrect.
     
    #38     Mar 20, 2016
  9. I see where we are diverging here, of course gamma and all the greeks in fact, are irrelevant once the option expires. So if you are trading options with a view to let them expire then I agree with you.

    My whole point during this discussion is trading with a view of closing the trade way before expiration, therefore that is why I want a non-linear PnL, which will be more pronounced when using options with shorter expirations (as gamma decreases with time to expiration).
     
    #39     Mar 20, 2016
  10. I am not focused on expiration, just making the point that only at expiration is the PnL linear, all times prior to you can show itis non-linear with respect to gamma gearing no matter the expiration month. Gamma is certainly relatively lower in front months than in back months but the difference is offset by higher deltas and also quite small. I think you locked into this idea about higher gamma in front month but it is offset by higher deltas in later months. So the distinction is relatively insignificant.

    Also if your time frame is only 2 to 3 weeks than the discussion is clouded by your time bias.

    April ATM option with delta .56 with gamma .01 versus Sept options with delta of .58 and gamma of .008. They both with have gearing.

    MOST IMPORTANT, the gearing is only true OTM to ATM, gamma is an upside U curve peaking ATM.

    Using Sept options also has non-linear PnL according to your criteria. You keep saying over and over that you non-linear PnL but you have not disproved that 3, 4 and 5 month options have similar gearing.

    I have to respectively disagree with your assertion that only the front month options have non-linear PnL. I have showed you with a few examples this is untrue already so I think we can go no further.
     
    #40     Mar 20, 2016