http://nattyornot.com/shoulder-training-natural-bodybuilders/ From the link: You Don’t Need A “Shoulder Day” You don’t need a dedicated shoulder day since you can’t possibly train your chest and back without the shoulder being involved. During bench presses, push-ups and dips the front shoulder works incredibly hard. Simultaneously when you perform pull-ups, rows and even deadlifts the posterior deltoid is also under pressure. Consequently, a separate day for dedicated shoulder work is not needed and often does more harm than good by negatively affecting your recovery... ...Side Lateral Raises Are Overrated One of the most overrated shoulder exercises ever are lateral raises. There is no doubt that this exercise does very little for you. Why? Because exercises such as overhead presses, handstand push-ups and push-presses will do a lot more for your overall shoulder development than some minuscule dumbbell raise which most people do with poor form to begin with. I don’t care how much burn you feel – you are still not getting 3D delts as a natural even if you do side lateral raises every day for 20 years. Have you ever seen a gymnast with poor shoulder development? No, because the sport is extremely arm and shoulder girdle dominant. Gymnasts may do lateral raises but only as part of rehab/prehab/warm-up routines. They don’t expect wonders from this exercise. That’s why naturals are advised to either drop this exercise completely or at least not make it the core of the workout... ...To summarize: – The strict standing barbell overhead press is the default king of shoulder exercises. – Dedicated shoulder days are not needed. – You can develop strong shoulders without the overhead press, but you will need a few exercises to take care of the scapula and the rotator cuff. Don’t use the bench press as your only pushing exercise for prolonged period of time. – Side lateral raises and isolated rear delt work is mostly a waste of time unless it’s used for rehab/prehab/warm-up. Thoughts?
I've read articles that say the same thing about arms too. "Don't work arms because they get plenty of work already from doing other exercises." But what happens if your triceps end up way more developed than your shoulders? You're just going to do more pushups and dips? I don't think so. What I'm saying is that this article is too simplistic. It just doesn't work like that for everybody. Each person has parts that develop well with little training, and some parts that don't seem to grow no matter what they do, so the exercises need to be tailored to that development profile and then adjusted along the way.
I only posted the article because I dislike laterals of any kind. I had done them for years in the past and hated every moment. I'm not going to suggest to others what they shouldn't do, but I am interested in what others think about those isolation exercises. And so, I posted the link and appreciate your response. As I'm sure I noted elsewhere in the past, I chose exercises for my routine that have some evolutionary relevance in basic movement: squatting, pushing, pulling. You'd be hard-pressed to find evolutionary relevance for almost all isolation movements, be they curls, laterals or whatever. I'm not saying they have no place in other people's routines. Rather, I surmise there is better bang for the buck elsewhere, especially when considering the need to balance stimulation with recovery. As for the finessing, I suppose some people will place a higher premium on detail than others. The question each person must then ask himself is whether the cost is worth it to them. Playing up to our genetic strengths is exhilarating. Focusing on finessing asymmetric details attributed to genetic weaknesses, which are largely insurmountable, is decidedly less so. Just my opinion.
I guess I was hoping to hear from people who would share their personal experiences regarding the use of laterals, and any changes that they may have noticed as a result of either dropping or adding them to an otherwise comprehensive workout routine.
My shoulder routine consists of three types of laterals. Side, Front, and Rear, in that order. Shoulder presses make my right shoulder pop when I lower the weight, so I stopped doing them altogether a few years ago. I figured it was dumb to keep doing them when my body clearly is telling me that it doesn't like that movement.
That makes sense. Stuff probably shouldn't be popping when working out. Did you add the laterals after you stopped the presses, or were you doing both and then just dropped the presses? Either way, did you notice a difference in shoulder development as a result?
I've always done side and rear laterals just to ensure I had even development in all areas of the shoulders, so I can't say that I noticed any development difference when I replaced the presses with front laterals. To me, laterals are every bit as difficult as shoulder presses, and probably more miserable now that I think about it. And least with shoulder presses, you can push up some pretty heavy weight. Laterals are not impressive to watch, and because the weight is sitting out on the end of a lever called your arm, they will make you feel like a schoolgirl trying to lift weights for the first time due to the miniscule weight that can be lifted with good form.
Much redundancy with weight lifting and I've never been a fan of muscle specific training for anything other than recovery from injury. That said I do dumbbell curls because, well because huge guns are a must to impress chicks. Guess it all depends what you're looking for. Conditioning and overall strength are my interests.
My right shoulder kind of pops/cracks/or makes a noise...when i rotate it back and around...I suspect it was from all the tennis I played when I was younger...I would make monster serves and forehands. with full extension/rotation and velocity. Those days felt good...it was a beautiful thing to execute a perfect, winning tennis swing. Almost felt like a balet to do and watch it. Kind of sucks now to have a worn out shoulder ....that must what all the professional retired athletes must feel like now...a wornout, useless racehorse.
Yeah, I screwed mine up originally from playing baseball at a young age. By age 12, my dad had shown me how to throw every pitch in the book. And I mean nasty curves, drop balls, knuckleballs, and fastballs. I would throw curves so dramatic that batters would literally step out of the batter's box only to see the ball come back across home plate. I learned pretty quick that the downside is that the twisting movements required for those pitches is brutal on your shoulder, so my arm was basically shot by the time I was 17. It's crazy how some of the choices you make when you are younger haunt you for the rest of your life.