Hello everyone and happy new year! I was not expecting this many replies, but I understand this is an interesting topic for many. Actually, I`m glad I made this thread as I`ve gotten much valuable advice already and it has helped me to start seriously thinking about what to do. The only thing I`m confident about right now is that I have to seriously reconsider my approach entering 2011. To clarify on my job, I work in the construction industry and have decent papers and a decent reputation. If I wanted to make a career in this field I could fairly easily negotiate a pay raise of 20% in my current job right now (it would naturally involve more responsibilities). I could start working late hours as I once did and make a decent living. Starting out on my own is also a possiblity. I was once very passionate about my career and went well beyond what was expected of me, but after a while I realized that I had gotten what I could out of it and that my interests lie elsewhere. Continuing in this job would not make me happy. That`s why I made a decision three years ago to pursue trading as a possible career. At this point I had been rather successful swing trading stocks, growing my account while working, but lost most of it when the market conditions changed and I did not adjust. Leverage and revenge trading can very quickly eradicate an account Knowing what was possible and also being aware of my lack of knowledge at that point, I reasoned that if I really spent the time studying the markets, reading books, learning this stuff, trading in simulator BEFORE risking my money, I could eventually make it as a trader. This I still believe, although my expectations have been drastically lowered and I`ve been humbled many times since I started this quest. I`ve been tempted to give up many times, but I`m not that kind of guy and since I pretty much chose this over a formal education, I need to give it my best shot before calling quits. Although I`ve covered a lot of ground the last three years, I`ve spent a lot of time going in circles and being distracted by my daily life. I fear that if I continue to just mess around without giving trading my 100% undivided focus, it will take me a long time to make it if I ever do. It seems like a few of you think I live in the US, but I live in Europe. My country made it fairly well through the financial crisis and we did not have a housing bubble. There is still demand for my skills in the industry and I could quickly get back to work if trading does not work out. And yes, I`m single without any children or other significant obligations. Pursuing trading while working a full-time job, does not allow much time for anything else The idea of taking a vacation to test the waters first may be a good idea. I`m less optimistic about automation at this point, but it is something I`m very interested in learning more about in the future. The reason I chose to pursue trading in the first place was because I wanted a career change and trading seemed to fit many of my requirements. Working for myself and the potential of financial freedom to mention a few. The market also fascinated me deeply at that point (still does), so why not? I know many disagree, but I believe day trading to be the best method for consistent income provided that you actually learn how to trade. I also like not having any overnight positions. The market may go sideways for months, but as a day trader you can always exploit the intraday moves. Experiencing a wide variety of market conditions in a compressed time frame (compared to long-term trading) also accelerates learning IMO. Perhaps I should look further into swing trading forex. I`ve simply invested most of my efforts into learning day trading as that has been my goal all the way. I understand that it does not make sense to quit my job before I earn consistent income from my trading. It makes sense in theory and this was always the plan, but coming home from work and trading during a very compressed window of opportunity is extremely tough. So tough that I`m not even sure I could pull it off. Swing trading would probably be a better method here. I`m interested in getting a formal education if trading does not work out. That`s why I don`t feel like half-assing for several more years in a job I don`t like, just to find out that it`s not for me and being an old man before getting into school. Perhaps I just should take the leap and give it 100% for the next 7 months and then call it quits for now if I continue losing and get myself an education. I need to think it over. I will start following the markets closely again on Monday, but only SIM for now. Thank you everyone for your valuable and kind advice. There were simply too many answers to adress each of you in particular. Still thinking. Best regards, Laissez Faire
ramora, seems like a rather balanced approach and an efficient use of time. If your anything like me if you had extra screen time you might get in trouble...but thats me... ES
If I could keep my current job, but work only three days per week, I think I should earn enough to meet my financial obligations for a while. This would give me two days where I can trade the whole session, with ample time to prepare before I start. The three other days would be strictly afternoon trading. This would also be a lot less stressful (which is equally important) mentally and physically. I would be able to sleep adequately on most days, not to mention that it will be easier to resume my regular workouts and possibly have some time for relaxation as well. An alternative to trade full-time for sure. Less stress, more opportunity and my expenses would be covered for a while. Maybe
here's a 3 year chart with the market profile supp /res denoted, towards the botttom, nip,cleavage and ledge(these are the points it reaches before turning or stopping) are denoted in blue,the same are denoted in red with the prices,the reason its a 3 year is because that is how far back ione had to go to find res, since we have had such a bullish year...combine these with s/r on trendline charts and you will get the bigger picture ,years ago when the volume and values were much lower,the shorter time frames were much easier to trade,day trading ES today is extremely tough,if you learn to read these 2 types of charting and learn to swing trade with stops,you could easily find 12 setups a year and trade them and keep your job, probably being more profitable and less demanding of your time...the market will take a long time to learn,and its constantly changing, watching the news and keeping an eye on the longer term, you will get a sense,see the forest thru the trees ,this approach would keep you in the game,allow you the time to learn how to read the market,allow you to keep your job
heres a weekly spx trendline chart showing res in the 1250-60 area...combined resistances or supports are not so frequent but much higher probability trades,(12 or so per year)
the first thing Laissez Faire is you've got a 'hair up your arse' about trading - daytrading and letting it rule you won't be got rid of till you are daytrading or have daytraded it's possible that were you to trade 2 full days a week you'd get rid of the hair but there's the other problem the other problem you seem to have is not knowing 'how to trade'; that is you don't have a system / method, or what you do have isn't profitable, and after 3 years of trading failure, the problem will only be exacerbated by daytrading "The market may go sideways for months . . . " since there's endless examples of the intraday market going sideways for Hours at a time, I have to wonder if that statement's an excuse to day trade, or not 'knowing how to trade' is there a fear of 'not being in control' of the trade since you wouldn't be in front of the computer when Day-to-Days trading ? where does the fear originate ? did you ever have similar fears related to your duties in your construction industry job ? did they go away ? why ? "Experiencing a wide variety of market conditions in a compressed time frame (compared to long-term trading) also accelerates . . . " losses DtDs trading is a lot more forgiving than intraday all the techniques I use trading a 10 second chart I use when DtDs trading were I in a GMT/CT Europe location and worked a 9-5 job, I'd be up at 7am, have a look at the price during breakfast, go to work, have a look at the price when I got home, and at 11pm a last look at the day's close before going to sleep the only time I might not be in the market when trading the eurusd is during an NFP release - see this Friday's and the euro's reaction then day's close I could also carry a portable device of some sort that displays quote, chart and order entry and sneak a peek at tea breaks and lunch time, closing the trade if need be however, the main thing is having a reliable trading system/method - and without one you're fooked
u are already thinking about how if it doesnt worK, then u will get another job easily. This tells me u arent serious enough anout trading. It also tells ,e u must hate ur curremt job. If u can want it bad enough, u will do it and dont look back. Make it happen, and dont lose ANY money
In my opinion - you can quit your job when you get to the point that you are paying more in taxes from trading P&L/Income than you are earning in your day job.
Someday when you are much older you will understand better where I am coming from. I didn't make trading my sole source of income until I had accumulated between $250,000 and $300,000 in trading profits. That was over 15 years ago and turned out to be a wise choice. Now the choice is when do I retire and begin enjoying the fruits of my labor.