Shooting and Sobbing by Gilad Atzmon

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by sameeh55, Jun 20, 2010.

  1. Gilad Atzmon is an Israeli born writer and musician.

    Shooting and Sobbing by Gilad Atzmon
    Friday, June 18, 2010 at 8:20AM Gilad Atzmon

    Hold your breath. This in not a joke, this is not a satire. It is real almost as much as it is pathetic. Israeli Ynet just reported that the images of captured Israeli commandos published in Turkish papers opened “...old wounds among those Israeli commandos involved in similar circumstances. Thus far, at least four combat soldiers have reported worsening of their (mental) condition”

    While the rest of the world is caught shocked and angry by the images of Israeli navy seals executing peace activists in cold blood, the Israelis seem to moan over their new emerging phantasmic trauma.

    img]http://www.gilad.co.uk/storage/Israeli%20commando%20cries.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1276849575128[/img]

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    Yent reports, “the difficult images of Israeli commandos tied up and bloody on the deck of the Marmara have had significant effects on soldiers who have been away from the battlefield for more than a year.” Apparently the new sufferers are soldiers who didn’t even take part in the event.

    First, let me offer the Israeli traumatised commando ‘victims’ a light remedy. In the following picture they can see that the Turkish medical team was actually treating the lightly wounded Israeli soldiers on the lower deck at the time their friends were executing peace activists on the upper decks. I want to believe that once Israelis grasp that there is compassion out of their Hebraic Ghetto, they may even start to develop some empathic feelings themselves. But I may be over optimistic here.

    [​IMG]

    Ynet learned that at least four “Navy combat soldiers have recently contacted the Defence Ministry to report that the media images of the injured soldiers have instigated a worsening in their mental and psychiatric conditions.” No wonder why Israel needs so many atomic bombs. If this is the way its toughest combatants react to images of light injuries, Israel may as well use its ultimate weapon against the next humanitarian flotilla to Gaza.

    One of the ‘suffering commandos’ who was enlisted last year and didn’t participate in the cold blooded murder on the Mavi Marmara reported that he “did not receive any training on how to deal with such situations and their repercussions”, one of which is that he has a hard time falling asleep at night. The kosher warrior cannot close his eyes. Not too bad, I guess, in comparison with the nine peace activists who won’t see daylight.

    Interestingly enough, Ynet is yet to report about Israeli commandos who are traumatised by the massacre they committed executing peace activists in international waters. Ynet is also yet to report on any Hasbara officer who committed a suicide after being exposed for forging and staging footage of violence on the Mavi Marmara.

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    Maybe the Israelis are not that fragile after all.

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/shooting-and-sobbing-by-gilad-atzmon.html
     
  2. Let's say you had the ear of the prime minister of Israel, and he respected your opinion. What exactly would you advise him to do? Keep in mind that Israel's survival as an independent Jewish-majority state in non-negotiable, but we are willing to do pretty much anything else if it would lead to genuine peace.

    So seriously, what can Israel possibly do? Offer you the same deal you were given ten years ago and so violently rejected? Would that help? Dismantle all checkpoints, tear down the wall and free all the P.O.W.s? Israel's 'reward' for that would just be a horrifying increase in terrorism against its citizens, and you know it.
    Is there anything Israel could do to end the relentless terror attacks of Hamas and IJ? Besides ceasing to exist, what could Israel possibly do to appease your side and coexist in peace with the Palis?

    Unless you can provide a feasible answer to this dilemma, you can see why the people of Israel have no choice but to fight.
     
  3.  
  4. East Jerusalem is negotiable, but 'right of return' or any notion of a bi-national state would be a total non-starter for Israel. The entire point of Israel's existence is for Jews to have one tiny place in this world where we can be the majority and not at the mercy of anyone but ourselves.

    If the only 'peace agreement' acceptable to you would be the cessation of Israel's existence (or a bi-national state/right of return, as you call it), then the fighting will have to continue... but not because of the Israeli far-right. Islamic majority rule (=national suicide) is acceptable to absolutely no one but the most extreme elements on the Israeli far-left.

    Yes, there are some Zionist elements who will never be willing to compromise an inch, but you saw back the 90's how they can be pushed aside into the opposition at the first whiff of a peace accord. Their desires don't have to matter- Israeli society as a whole would strongly prefer peace. Even Rabin's assassination wouldn't have been a setback to your side, if only you could have refrained from blowing yourselves up on crowded Israeli buses for a little while. If not for the wave of brutal Islamic terrorism at the heart of Israel following Rabin's death, Peres (not Netanyahu) would have easily been elected in 1996, and he would have been more than eager to continue the peace process right where Rabin left off.

    Again, if you demand nothing less than the complete cessation of Israel's existence, internal Israeli politics aren't your concern at all. NO Israeli leader would ever agree to that. Your position leaves Israel with no choice but to fight you, whether we want to or not.
     
  5. A state can control its citizenship and/or ethnic make-up; or it can be a liberal democracy. It cannot be both.

    For example, what happens if differing birth rates result in Jews becoming the minority in Israel, and then the majority votes in a non-Zionist government? What happens if left-wing Jews and non-Jewish Israeli citizens have a pro-immigration policy that results in the same thing? What if interracial/inter-faith marriages become sufficient over the years to do the same?

    Surely you can see it is impossible to guarantee that won't happen, without resorting to non-democratic means. The only way your goal can be reliably pursued is for Israel to become an ethnically discriminatory state like apartheid S Africa or China, denying citizenship to people based on their racial background.

    The desired goal of Jews being free from persecution can be achieved by making everyone else in Israel also free from persecution. Whereas retaining that right purely for Jews alone will inevitably clash at some point with the rights of non-Jews not to be persecuted. Remember, Hitler started off and gained support because he was arguing, with some justification (e.g. against the harsh aspects of the Versailles Treaty), for the German right not to be persecuted by foreigners.
     
  6. When every Jew in the world is a minority wherever he goes, these are the results.
    It's simply not an option. We learned that the hard way.

    Jews stuck around in Nazi occupied Europe to be slaughtered en masse- not out of stupidity, but because they had nowhere else to go. Israel as a strong, independent, Jewish-majority state is our only insurance policy and our only lifeboat. We need it. Never Again.
     
  7. <img src=http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2876990>
     
  8. This isn't a crazy concept Cutten... Other groups of people have their own nation, with their own culture, and their own religion.

    For example, Japan. They have their own nation, disctinctive culture, and Shinto, their own religion. Very much like Jews. Also much like Arabs hating Jews the Chinese hate the Japs. However back in Japan's formative years there wasn't a UN and world full of Japanese hating freaks waging propaganda wars. Hence, the Japs were free to kick the living shit out of the Chinese when they tried to oppress them... Japan hasn't had many problems from them since...Israel hasn't got that luxury.

    "Liberal democracy" doesn't deny a right to the cultural identity to a people, or the right of that people to their land.

    Now, there are many immigrants to Israel, Jew and non Jew alike. There are even many easterners going there now. However Israel is a Jewish state just as Japan is a Japanese state. You are barking up the wrong tree with your racism charge, as Israel is by far the most multicultural state in the middle east. If you want to cry segregation go bitch at Saudi Arabia who have entire cities which you can't even visit unless you are a muslim...
     
  9. Blotto

    Blotto

    German police are investigating the stoning of a Jewish dance group trying to perform on the street in the city of Hanover.


    Youths reportedly shouted "Juden Raus" (Jews Out) as they attacked the dancers of the Chaverim ("Friends" in Hebrew) dance troupe last weekend.

    Police said several Muslim immigrant youths were among the attackers and two youths were being questioned.

    A German Jewish leader said she feared growing anti-Israeli sentiment.
     
  10. "Liberal democracy" doesn't deny a right to the cultural identity to a people, or the right of that people to their land. "

    I think the rule is all countries have a right to a cultural identity except for White, European Christian societies.

    For most of USA history this was our identity, then we threw it away with the 1965 immigration act. Diversity is the ultimate curse. It creates wars, animosity, and fractures society. That is not opinion, that is history. Any nation that can maintain a common culture and race has an advantage.
     
    #10     Jul 3, 2010