Selling Naked Puts

Discussion in 'Journals' started by vedanta, Nov 17, 2005.

  1. vedanta

    vedanta

    Thanks Optioncoach

    I am considering other strategies as well.I am also actively reading yout thread on SPX credit spread.

    On a credit spread you have a debit and a credit. I consider debit as a loss and if you add up all your losses ,probably you have blown away your total account. This argument is probably like glass is half full or half empty.

    Thanks
     
    #11     Nov 20, 2005
  2. vedanta

    vedanta


    Thanks vhehn

    I follow and implement strict money management rules. Being deep out of the money, most of the time I am always very comfortable. and hardly any corrective action is required. As I said I have withdrawn profits and this amounts to my original capital.

    My question is why selling naked puts is not widely followed. Is this just fear of somethig that has a very low probability of happening.

    Thanks
     
    #12     Nov 20, 2005
  3. Choad

    Choad

    I agree with vhehn. I've done lots of NPs for years. It does work.

    The thing is, IMHO, it is nothing more than a leveraged long play. It can be a little better, and certainly not worse than just going long the stock.

    BUT you have to do it with an investor's mindset! Like v sez, you get too greedy and use too much leverage to try and nail big short-term gains, then you WILL suffer for it - sooner or later. This is guaranteed...

    Find *good* stocks (at least ones with earnings growth and maybe some divs). Keep the leverage down. Have patience, but also have a getting out point.

    The main point is,if you are careful and work hard at it, you will have ups and downs but you will do fine and your account will grow.

    If it works for you and you understand ALL the risks and nuances, then go for it!

    Good luck.

    C
     
    #13     Nov 20, 2005
  4. Choad

    Choad

    I think a lot of it is that, back in the day, you were allowed to use much more margin for NPs and during one of the market crashes a few years ago a bunch of traders and brokers got wiped out (ole Vic Neiderhofer).

    Yes, it's the same R/R as covered calls, but brokers don't push NPs because NPs can use more leverage so more risky in that sense...and there are far fewer commissions to grab!
     
    #14     Nov 20, 2005
  5. Few comments:

    When you say you have 50% invested in these naked PUTs, I hope you mean that your margin requirement is 50% of your capital.
    I would add a money management rule that you should never exceed 80-90% of your capital in margin. You should plan your exposure such that this limit will only be triggered by a sharp move against you.

    Note that the indices are positively correlated and if the world markets will fall, you'll lose on all of them. If there is an external shock like a major terrorist attack, bird flu pandemic, etc. you might be wiped out in a day!

    To partially overcome the positive correlation, I would either diversify some of your positions to options on commodities or replace half the naked PUTs with naked CALLs. This will not save you from disaster, but improve your chances of survival.

    Remember that above a certain level of risk, your blowup is just a matter of when, not if.
     
    #15     Nov 20, 2005
  6. Just a though about option selling. Right now the VIX is around 11. I used to sell puts with great success when the VIX was at 35-40. When the market changes as a trader you must adapt. With the VIX at 11 the advantage is to the holder of the long option. What I have done is learned how to use options as insurance that allows me to trade more aggressively. The best part is that I am starting to turn my "insurance" from a cost into a profit centre.
    The day will come again when I can enjoy the glee that comes from having an option expire worthless. Until then I will enjoy exploiting change in volatility to sell my long options at a profit.
     
    #16     Nov 21, 2005
  7. vedanta

    vedanta

    Choad

    Thanks for your reply. I donot write naked puts on stocks. By experience I have learnt that it is better to stick to indices and futures.

    Optionwizard

    Yes I would like to sell put options on commodities, but as yet donot know how to go about it. IB probably does not have anything so I might need another broker. Any comments?

    Your idea about naked calls is good as well. Any event will never affect both calls and puts. I am going to try this as well. Will I save on margin requirement if I sell call and put on the same underlying and same expiry month? There must be some name to this strategy.

    Zftrader

    Thanks for the idea about VIX. Where can I find this figure live or delayed?
     
    #17     Nov 21, 2005
  8. Vedanta,

    Regarding commodities, IB lets you trade options on debt (bonds/notes) and Eurodollars.

    The strategy is called a "short strangle". The margin is worst case of either PUTs or CALLs plus the premium of the other side, but look at IB site for accurate definition.


     
    #18     Nov 21, 2005