Sell 100 shares short APPLE and sell a Put ITM.

Discussion in 'Options' started by arcane73, Feb 26, 2025.

  1. spy

    spy

    For a year? With American exercise options? Maybe trading TLT or ZROZ outright really is the lesser evil?
     
    #11     Feb 26, 2025
  2. cesfx

    cesfx

    Spx box would be European.
    But OP did write Apple.

    I kind of understand the structure and the use case, but never used it as my style doesn't require so much margin.

    Then, for reg-t at least, I think the extra margin only becomes available on the same instrument.
    But I might be wrong.
     
    #12     Feb 27, 2025
    spy likes this.
  3. Bekim

    Bekim

    You will have to pay the dividend
     
    #13     Feb 27, 2025
  4. arcane73

    arcane73

    Thanks for the info.

    The position is delta neutral as long as Apple is below $390

    If I sell a call, I have to buy the stock, it's the opposite position.

    The account is no longer in credit but in debit.
     
    #14     Feb 27, 2025
  5. arcane73

    arcane73

    the dividend on apple is 0.4%

    I will not be sued for this reason
     
    #15     Feb 27, 2025
  6. FSU

    FSU

    As @newwurldmn pointed out, selling a call naked is synthetically the exact same position as selling the stock and selling a put (of the same strike). It's not the opposite position.

    Say you short the stock at 400 and sell the 400 put. At expiration if below 400 you are assigned on your short put and end up with no position. If above 400 you are not assigned and have short stock

    By selling the 400 call naked, at expiration if below 400 you are not assigned and have no position. If above 400 you are assigned and have short stock. Exactly the same.

    In fact, you will probably be better off just shorting the call. If you short stock as a retail customer, you probably won't get the same interest rate that would be implied in the short call.
     
    #16     Feb 27, 2025
  7. arcane73

    arcane73

    The purpose of the trade is to have liquidity.

    You are not reading the messages.

    The put sold is itm at 390 and not at the strike price.

    If I sell the call at 400 for January 2026, I collect $40

    This has nothing to do with selling the stock short and a put itm.
     
    #17     Feb 27, 2025
  8. FSU

    FSU

    You are not understanding. I gave the 400 call as an example.

    What I am trying to explain to you is if you sell a put and short the stock, it is the same as simply selling a call of the same strike. Doesn't matter if its ITM or not.
    If you sold a 390 put and shorted stock, its the same as simply selling the 390 call naked.
     
    #18     Feb 27, 2025
  9. arcane73

    arcane73

    yes it's the same thing in terms of trading.

    But in my case, I have more than $50,000 in the credit of my account with an interest of $0.25 per year.

    If the appl stock remains below $390 for 1 year, I keep my credit.

    After a year, the position will close because I will be assigned on the put.
    And the credit will disappear.
     
    #19     Feb 27, 2025
  10. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    the interest rate you think you are arbing is priced into the option at the wholesale rate (you don’t get the wholesale rate). So you will be arbing yourself.

    A cleaner way is to trade an SPX BOX.
     
    #20     Feb 27, 2025
    spy and cesfx like this.