I have been called a conservative (and worse, most recently by trader556), but like you I have a mindset based more on individual issues than Party lines. As far as conservatives cornering the market on anger, I don't think that's accurate at all. I have many friends and relatives who are staunch liberals and they get very heated at times, as much as I do. As far as that voting issue with your ex-friend, perhaps the issue wasn't so much the subject of voting for Bush as it was your promise to do so and then breaking that promise.
First, betting your vote, for any reason, is a sacrilege. Second, having made the bet, you failed to fulfill it, that is downright dishonorable. How could your friend ever rely on your word or trust again? He's better off having jettisoned you.
I'm surprised at you Aphie. This is an answer only a shmuck would write. If you want monolithic support for the Govt. policies and no dissension at all you would be more at home, ironically, in Iraq. And if this were the case, to deepen the irony, Optional 777 might support US combat against Iraq.
When you refer to "us" above, I assume you mean the "us" of A. Funny, a country that was founded on the principles of freedom of expression for its citizens, you now would deny a portion of those citizens the right to exercise those freedoms. I don't know who you have been listening to recently to influence your thoughts, Michael Savage comes to mind, but perhaps you might try to view the situation of genuine protest as much more complicated and not as simple as "us" of A versus them. We are on the verge of globalization with the advancement of technology, yet the small minded would have "us" of A return to an isolated position. A dogmatic and extremist reaction to other extremists only perpetuates the madness. Proliferation of intolerance of the opinions of other citizens can only lead to greater and greater polarity in this country rather than intelligent unification. Discuss the issues with those you don't agree with, educate them to the reasons for your point of view if they are capable of listening, but never deny their right to peaceful protestation of our government or its policies. To achieve some balance in your life, which it is my opinion that you are sorely lacking, try to walk a mile in the protestor's shoes, and understand it is the protestors who express themselves in a non violent manner that can promote positive change and a proper example for the rest of the world. Personally, I have not reached a conclusion as to the right and best course of action concerning Iraq. I continue to listen to reasonable people express their thoughts on the matter, I continue to filter out the extremists, and it is my hope that there is sufficient evidence to support a reasonable and just response to provide resolution. If the most reasonable response is to remove Hussein from power, so be it. At this point, the jury is still out, and the more we discuss the issues, the more information and proof of violation of the U.N. agreement we gather, the better we will all feel once a course of action is taken. If it appears to me that the most reasonable course of action is war, then screw the opinions of those who refuse to look at the facts, and let's get it on. If the facts don't support that conclusion, I would find it difficult to support such action with a clear conscience.
Quote from rs7 We (NATO) can always use another bright officer in our ranks of military leaders. howdy Australia ... when did you join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization ? or has our dear American leader reorganized the globe and declared the South Pacific part of the North Atlantic lately ? regards wild
All I can say is that in the context of the moment (it was not really a bet....but the details are not important...because, it was a promise, so therefore it was as binding as a "bet" even though the reason was unclear, and had been totally forgotten by us both by the time the election rolled around), I did not think it was a serious promise. We both had too much to drink after work and I said I would vote for Bush to make him happy (for whatever reason). I had actually forgotten about the "promise" until he reminded me the day before the election. It was so absurd that it really didn't register until he reminded me. Even then, it was just a vague memory. But I knew I had somehow made a dumb promise, so I intended to fulfill it. So yeah, I went back on my word. And as far a betting a vote being a "sacrilege", well, I have done worse under the influence over my time. I am not proud of every moment of my life. But I can live with myself. By the way, trading votes was actually quite abundant in some of the western states in the 2000 election. Check with the Green Party. I am not saying this was right or wrong. But I was not the only guilty American that day. But I make no excuses. I made an error. Fortunately, my friend has since forgiven my "sin", and we are back to where we were. We have just agreed to leave politics out of our discussions. Because we will never agree on certain issues. And they are really NOT about anything having to do with war, economics, or the things that matter to me and to him most. On these issues, we actually are pretty like minded. The issues we disagreed on were (essentially) separation of church and state. So these are not issues that can be resolved by debate or rational discussion. Neither of us will waver. So as you, Max, and Hapaboy both concur, I made an error and I admit to it. However, my friend, who IS a friend, has found it in his heart to forgive and forget. We had a falling out, I felt bad and so did he. I apologized, and he forgave. So while you believe that he was better of having "jettisoned" me as a friend, in the end, he felt differently. Friendships are what they are. The value of friendships is determined by length, strength, and, as you mentioned, trust. So while I broke my promise, my "sin" did not offset years of good will and total trust and mutual respect. We were BOTH saddened that we went through a down time. But real friendships weather stormy times. As ours did. So you ask how my friend could "ever rely on or trust me again", well, you would have to ask him. He does, and has gotten over my one transgression. Fortunately for us both, he is not as militant as you. The same too many drinks that led to the stupid promise I broke accomplished the mending of the damage done. And while it may have been "dishonorable" to not fulfill my promise, at the time I was in the voting booth, I felt I would be "dishonorable" to myself to vote for a candidate I did not believe was qualified to hold the office. And I also had the "honor" to admit what I had done. I could have easily told him I voted for Bush. I did not. I thought I had a fair compromise worked out. I was wrong, and I owned up to it. Enough said. Not everyone holds a grudge forever. Besides, we not only worked together and hung out together, but we played music together. So we really couldn't go too long without re-established our relationship. We practiced too long and too hard to master some fine jams. And things like good music transcend disagreements over things like school vouchers every time. (Not that I would expect everyone to understand). But trust me on this one. Peace, rs7
And I actually believe that Dan has what it takes to be an asset to our forces. He is obviously very bright and very diligent in his efforts, whatever they may be. Wasn't it a wise man who once stated: "Military intelligence is a contradiction in terms"?
That is a sweeping statement you've made Tampa, and an incorrect one. I for one hate professional wrestling, pay-per-view or otherwise, and the Super Bowl is hardly exciting to me as my beloved Dolphins suffered yet another second-half-of-the-season meltdown. You are referring to Iraq, while I and many others see the nation and the hundreds of thousands at risk to be this country and fellow Americans. That is the reality as we see it. And stating that no "true supporter will have to actually take part in it" infers that our men and women in the military are opposed to fighting Iraq. Did you conduct a poll?
At 11:01 PM 1. "The anger over this maneuver ruined my friendship. To this day I cannot understand." 2. "But it cost me a friendship I valued greatly. I lost a friend I truly liked. And all over HIS (not my) political anger." At 3:02 AM: "Fortunately, my friend has since forgiven my 'sin', and we are back to where we were. " My, oh my, just four hours later, you patch it all up. Amazing, almost as if the whole thing never occurred.