"Scaling out" is inferior behavior

Discussion in 'Strategy Building' started by Buy1Sell2, Oct 18, 2006.

Do you scale out of positions?

  1. I always scale out

    113 vote(s)
    14.1%
  2. I scale out most of the time

    228 vote(s)
    28.5%
  3. Most of the time, I do not scale out

    189 vote(s)
    23.6%
  4. I never scale out

    270 vote(s)
    33.8%
  1. jem

    jem

    I was discussing something that anyone who has every spent some time designing systems understands. The larger your profit target the greater your risk of drawdown. (overall). If you have some entry that has a non-linear payoff - we are probably not talking directional trading. ( I understand there may be exceptions to linear payoffs - such as the way turtles scaled into winning moves. Which I think was a brilliant way to try gain edge. Scale into winning movers faster than the market can degrade a signal. )

    buy1


    Have ever tested entries and exits.

    have you done work the maximum favorable excursion and mae.

    Do you understand the results.
     
    #881     Jul 16, 2007
  2. Been there and done that via the testing route.

    However, I do strongly disagree with the following statement for swing trading or position trading market seasonal tendencies (cycles).

    I know, that's off topic and I'll leave again. :cool:

    Mark
     
    #882     Jul 16, 2007
  3. jem

    jem

    no mark - don't disappear I don't mind being challenged. I suppose you are saying that if the cycle holds (or perhaps if the cycle does not hold you are just as likely to get 5R as 4R. That would be very interesting.


    thanks.
     
    #883     Jul 16, 2007
  4. JSSPMK

    JSSPMK

    I think what has to be taken into consideration is, which I believe perviously mentioned by Buy1Sell2 though not directly, that he is a multi millionaire, though trading only 10% of his net worth, I think he would have a different view if:

    1. He had a 5 digit trading account;
    2. Was driven by fast turnaround trading 1 and 2 minute charts;
     
    #884     Jul 16, 2007
  5. buy2sell1

    buy2sell1

    If you are a daytrader - scaling out is a MUST. Markets go up & down as a yoyo.
     
    #885     Oct 13, 2007
  6. Someone tell me, how exactly am I supposed to unwind a position like 30,000 shares long EFUT or JRJC, without scaling out?

    I always scale in and out, out of necessity- and I'm kind of surprised that this puts me in the minority here.
     
    #886     Oct 13, 2007
  7. MGJ

    MGJ

    Here's a bit of data on Scaling Out. It's a backtest of a mechanical trading system operating on a portfolio of 90 futures markets, without Scaling Out (labeled "BEFORE") and then with Scaling Out (labeled "AFTER"). The system is fairly long term, holding positions for several months.

    Perhaps of note are the changes to
    • Number of Trades: increased from 1317 to 2444 (each exit is considered to be its own trade)
    • Winning Percentage: increased from 46% to 71%
    • Total Profits (shown as Compound Annual Growth Rate, CAGR%): unchanged
    • Max Drawdown: decreased from 42% to 25%
    • Profit Factor: decreased from 3.54 to 2.71
    • Expectation Ratio (average trade profit / average trade risk): decreased from 1.28 to 0.42
    • Sharpe Ratio: increased from 1.28 to 1.43
    • MAR Ratio (CAGR% / MaxDD%): increased from 0.73 to 1.07.
    [​IMG]
     
    #887     Oct 13, 2007
  8. Thank You MGJ.
     
    #888     Oct 14, 2007
  9. Your talking about real trading situations.

    The thread starter said many times this discussion is not about what actually happens in real trading situations.

    Simply, not scaling out looks great on paper in comparison to scaling out.

    However, in reality (real trading conditions)...

    It's a completely different story and scaling out will always by superior during certain trade situations.

    Another way to look at, there are times when exiting all at once is appropriate and there are times when scaling out is appropriate...

    However, as I said before, thread starter said that's a discussion for elsewhere. :(

    Mark
     
    #889     Oct 14, 2007
  10. Wow this thread is still alive . . .
     
    #890     Oct 14, 2007