"Scaling out" is inferior behavior

Discussion in 'Strategy Building' started by Buy1Sell2, Oct 18, 2006.

Do you scale out of positions?

  1. I always scale out

    113 vote(s)
    14.1%
  2. I scale out most of the time

    228 vote(s)
    28.5%
  3. Most of the time, I do not scale out

    189 vote(s)
    23.6%
  4. I never scale out

    270 vote(s)
    33.8%
  1. Don't bother with facts, GSCO. We have provided ten different explanations to B1S2 as to why his blanket statement is untrue.

    Recently he tried to get out a side door by saying that when you take half a position off you are not scaling out, but in fact initiating a new trade.

    The bottom line is - there are several different and unrelated situations in which scaling out might be the optimal strategy. The most obvious is in automated trading system design. B1S2's assertion is based on a false premise - that one can 'identify the optimal exit point for every trade before the trade is initiated'.
     
    #811     Apr 6, 2007
  2. Sounds a bit like Larry Livermore :) Seems like your strategy makes some sense.

    "I sold 1000 and the market ate them up so I knew I wanted to be long the stock"
     
    #812     Apr 6, 2007
  3. another one of OP's faults is that he fails to recognize the difference in what is an optimum strategy.

    for example, assume that given one's methodology/system that scaling out gives an average return of 500% per year with a 10% risk of 30% drawdown and a 5% risk of ruin

    and that setting a hard target of X points for the same setup gives an average return of 600% per year with a 15% risk of 30% drawdown and a 10% risk of ruin.

    which is "better?"

    well... that depends

    different exit strategies do not just affect the total % return, given sufficient 'n' for the edge to work out.

    they also affect smoothness of equity curve, drawdown, risk of ruin, etc.

    of course the fact that he is already backpedaling, without admitting his logical errors, shows that he is just wasting our time with his trollish postings anyway :)
     
    #813     Apr 6, 2007
  4. Not to pile on the OP, but...
    "Failing to risk-adjust your returns" is inferior behavior.
     
    #814     Apr 7, 2007
  5. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    There has been zero backpedaling. In the Mr Quant example, the trader did not remove any of the trade before the expectancy calculation was achieved. This is the essence of what I am saying--Leave your full position on to either your target , trailing stop or new trade.

    As far as scaling in goes, my research shows that I would have made more by not scaling in and so I was incorrect in thinking that scaling in was better. It is not. Bottom line, I still stand by what I have mathematically proven several times in this thread and with personal experience. Scaling out is inferior behavior.
     
    #815     Apr 7, 2007
  6. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    No--this was a long time ago in this thread when I explained that aspect to Mark. NO attempt to get out the side door--I don't need to. Scaling out is inferior behavior, I am happy however, to see the posts against my position because it helps me to understand why some traders make less and also gives insight into one of the reasons that markets "pull back". I feel more comfortable than ever now.
     
    #816     Apr 7, 2007
  7. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    This is not the premise --
     
    #817     Apr 7, 2007
  8. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    Believe I am not ignorant of the way others trade. That is why I started the thread. It is not being lost on everyone. :)
     
    #818     Apr 7, 2007
  9. Mr. Quant also scales out before the original expectancy has been achieved if the newly calculated expectancy dictates to do so. This is commonly referred to as "reacting to changing market conditions".

    Would you like me to present a new example? :)
     
    #819     Apr 7, 2007
  10. :)
     
    #820     Apr 7, 2007