"Scaling out" is inferior behavior

Discussion in 'Strategy Building' started by Buy1Sell2, Oct 18, 2006.

Do you scale out of positions?

  1. I always scale out

    113 vote(s)
    14.1%
  2. I scale out most of the time

    228 vote(s)
    28.5%
  3. Most of the time, I do not scale out

    189 vote(s)
    23.6%
  4. I never scale out

    270 vote(s)
    33.8%
  1. taowave

    taowave

    Not sure what you mean by "take your money off the table when you think there is a reversal"...

    That certainly is not "always be in the market"......

    By your logic,if you feel one should take 100% of a position off at a specific target or signal,then unless you reverse your logic is inherently flawed,or should i say not optimal...
     
    #731     Mar 27, 2007
  2. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    True, but she also said to grab with both hands, not just one.
     
    #732     Mar 27, 2007
  3. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    It was just a poor choice of words. By taking money off the table, I meant that you should take all profits off the table and reverse the position. You always should exit the full position.
     
    #733     Mar 27, 2007
  4. It sounds like you are trading Jack Hershey's method or something similar.
     
    #734     Mar 27, 2007
  5. Another erroneous assumption. He adjusts his trade sizing at regular intervals based upon the present expectancy of the position.

    P.S. Q: "What should Mr. Quant do?" A: Scale out.

    I won't go into any more detail. You seem too closely attached to your trading "world view" to assimilate new information. Good luck with your trading.
     
    #735     Mar 27, 2007
  6. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    Here is the section where you indicated that he used no targets. This is what makes my response so simple . He stays fully in the trade until previous reaction lows are breached. That is the proper way to trade when not using targets period. I don't need any extra detail in this example. The level of positive expectancy is irrelevant to a trader who is not using targets. All they need to look at is if the the trade is positive at all and then enter the trade. Then they use trailing stops. What happens to derail most otherwise sound thinkers is that they try and make trading more complicated than it is. It is not--:)
     
    #736     Mar 28, 2007
  7. Very well put.
     
    #737     Mar 28, 2007
  8. Of course not. Your mind has been made up since the original post. Keep the blinders on - don't let any cognitive dissonance get in your way.

    Au contraire mon frere. It is quite relevant to the sizing of the trade - we're talking about a methodology that dynamically reappraises the risk/reward picture. An investor using such a tool would be trading irrationally if trade sizing weren't adjusted on a dynamic basis as well. An equivalent way of considering this trade is as a sequence of discrete trades, with optimized sizing - the old one being closed & a new one being initiated each time the forward expectancy is re-evaluated (weekly, daily, hourly...whatever). Perhaps this conceptualization will assault your sensibilities less than the term "scaling out".
    :)
     
    #738     Mar 28, 2007
  9. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    Position sizing is a function of where your stop will be on the chart. It has nothing to do with positive expectancy if you trade a system that does not use targets. Your trade is adjusted dynamically on the risk side by trailing stops. This is trading 101.

    Anyway, it is irrelevant to this thread due to the fact that my assertion is what occurs AFTER you had made a decision on position sizing etc.

    It is a simple math truth that you make more money over the long haul by not scaling out AFTER decisions have been made on position size, market direction etc. --It just isn't relevant here, but could be in another thread. The simnple fact is that when you take partial profits off the table before trade maturity, you may make money , but it will be a poorer performance than if you let the enire trade run to maturity.

    We need to keep on topic here. Thanks:)
     
    #739     Mar 29, 2007
  10. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    Correct. --And a lot earlier than the original post I would add. I would also reiterate that since the beginning of the thread , I have changed my position on scaling in as well and now believe it to be folly over the long haul tool.
     
    #740     Mar 29, 2007