"Scaling out" is inferior behavior

Discussion in 'Strategy Building' started by Buy1Sell2, Oct 18, 2006.

Do you scale out of positions?

  1. I always scale out

    113 vote(s)
    14.1%
  2. I scale out most of the time

    228 vote(s)
    28.5%
  3. Most of the time, I do not scale out

    189 vote(s)
    23.6%
  4. I never scale out

    270 vote(s)
    33.8%
  1. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    Thanks Jimmy Jam very much for the kind words here.



     
    #681     Mar 17, 2007
  2. An example of a "superior strategy" would involve scaling out of holdings as their positive expectancies diminish, replacing them with new holdings having higher positive expectancies. Such an approach would theoretically provide greater returns while dampening volatility through increased diversification.

    Why are the OTHERS scaling out? Risk management? Quantitative re-deployment of assets? You can't prove a totality by proving one subset. Check your Venn diagram again. Thanks.
     
    #682     Mar 18, 2007
  3. jem

    jem

    You can't prove a totality by proving one subset. Check your Venn diagram again.

    I need to remember this sound bit verbatim as it will save a lot of argument.
     
    #683     Mar 18, 2007
  4. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    The math is the same on all subsets.
     
    #684     Mar 18, 2007
  5. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    This is a simple math premise concerning one trade. Do not try and confuse the issue. If we were to examine what you are mentioning here, then it would be argued that if the expectancy is better elsewhere, then the whole trade should be taken off at the same time and transferred to the higher expectancy trade. Why would some of the trade be left on? --Doesn't make sense--sorry. Many people are making the case for me and don't realize it.



    :)
     
    #685     Mar 18, 2007
  6. Really? And I thought that making absolute pronouncements in an environment of uncertainty was inferior behavior. How foolish of me.
     
    #686     Mar 18, 2007
  7. Incorrect. You aren't risk-adjusting your results. Diversification smooths the equity curve in the scenario I outlined, providing a superior risk/reward profile. I would have to trade with leverage to bring our risk levels to equivalence (goosing returns in the process). You are ignoring this "apples to apples" adjustment.
     
    #687     Mar 18, 2007
  8. nitro

    nitro

    Scaling out is an averaging process. If the markets are in a state where it's fractal dimension is (well "below") less than .5 (reverting to the mean), then it may make sense to scale out and buy back at support. If the fractal dimension of the market is (well "above") > .5 (trending), then scaling out is likely to cause leaving lots of money on the table.

    This can all be tied to expectancy because expectancy is a function of underlying volatility. For example, if you look at the way that option models use trees to value an option, you can see that they assume Geometric Brownian motion of the underlying, and the expectancy at each node in the tree comes from the probability of an up move or a down move. The model is doing an averaging process at each node. I haven't thought it through, but the logic to scale out or not is probably similar to that used in option model trees.

    Therefore, imo the answer is, you gotta know what type of market you are in (i.e. volatility), and then adjust accordingly how you take profits because expectancy is different in each type of market. This is hugely complicated because the market (from a game theoretic point of view) is playing mixed strategies in all time frames.

    Imo, scaling out in some form (note that this is more complicated than it seems at first) is critical in todays markets. Look at ES, it looks like a chart of ZN for crying out loud!

    nitro
     
    #688     Mar 18, 2007
  9. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    No Nitro--The entire position should be closed out and reentered on a pullback, not just a portion of it. Common sense.:)
     
    #689     Mar 19, 2007
  10. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    The prudent is already diversified before entering into the trade, therefore this makes your argument irrelevant. You are attempting to move the discussion into a long back and forth on how a person should manage their entire portfolio. I am discussing how to manage each individual trade.

     
    #690     Mar 19, 2007