"Scaling out" is inferior behavior

Discussion in 'Strategy Building' started by Buy1Sell2, Oct 18, 2006.

Do you scale out of positions?

  1. I always scale out

    113 vote(s)
    14.1%
  2. I scale out most of the time

    228 vote(s)
    28.5%
  3. Most of the time, I do not scale out

    189 vote(s)
    23.6%
  4. I never scale out

    270 vote(s)
    33.8%
  1.  
    #331     Oct 26, 2006
  2. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    You are making my case for me here by taking some off and letting the rest run. Letting the whole trade run is better than letting part of the trade run over the long haul. In a side by side example, you have to let the ultimate target be "letting the trade run" on both sides of the comparison. This is a thread not about proper price targets, but rather about once someone has set their system up, which way gives you more money. You are entering a different discussion when you said all at 2 pennies versus letting the trade run. That's not for this thread.
     
    #332     Oct 26, 2006
  3. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    ES System with 5% winners and 20 trades. 9 point target 3 pt loss. 4 conracts

    1st without scaling out

    1 winner 9 X (4 contracts) = 36 pts($1800)
    19 losers 3 X (4 contracts) = 228 pts ($-11,400)
    Total Net Loss = -$9600



    2nd with scaling out at half

    1 winner 9 X (2 contracts)= 18 pts ($900)
    1 winner 4.5 X (2 contracts)= 9 pts ($450)
    19 loser 3 X (4 contracts) = 228 pts ($-11,400)
    Total Net Loss = -$10050


    Don't confuse my assertion with picking the optimal targets necessarily. That is part of my system, but the point is that no matter what target you use, stop loss, percentage of winners, the result is always the same--unless you have a zero percent system which I am sure exists.
    Scaling out is inferior bevavior.
     
    #333     Oct 26, 2006
  4. unprofitable traders don't scale out of a position, that is unless they play small where they can't scale out
     
    #334     Oct 26, 2006
  5. I don't think this is quite right. The idea of scaling out is that the percentages will -- and do -- change by the act of scaling out.

    In order to understand the potential benefits of scaling out for any given system you have to look at the max favorable excursion on losing trades and the amount of reversion you get on winning trades before the become winners. It's really best done with a backtesting program.

    The idea is to optimize your trading to capture some percentage of the losers before they become losers at the expense of some percentage of the winners that might have been. Adding trailing and breakeven stops is another way to complicate matters as well.

    Just my $.02
     
    #335     Oct 26, 2006
  6. No I'm not, in that case you would have made less money than me.

    TNG
     
    #336     Oct 26, 2006
  7. ES System with 5% winners and 20 trades. 9 point target 3 pt loss. 4 conracts

    1st without scaling out

    1 winner 9 X (4 contracts) = 36 pts($1800)
    19 losers 3 X (4 contracts) = 228 pts ($-11,400)
    Total Net Loss = -$9600



    2nd with scaling out at half

    1 winner 9 X (2 contracts)= 18 pts ($900)
    1 winner 18 X (2 contracts)= 27 pts ($1800)
    19 loser 3 X (4 contracts) = 228 pts ($-11,400)
    Total Net Loss = -$8700

    How can you argue this wouldn't have happened?

    TNG
     
    #337     Oct 26, 2006
  8. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    You'll need to use 18 in the first part of your example as well here. Also, 18 X 2 = 36
     
    #338     Oct 26, 2006
  9. And when you pay 7.00 both ways in coms, it can really save some money, even though its maybe not the safest thing to do.
     
    #339     Oct 26, 2006
  10. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    Certainly is one of the advantages of not scaling out. More profit per commission.
     
    #340     Oct 26, 2006