"Scaling out" is inferior behavior

Discussion in 'Strategy Building' started by Buy1Sell2, Oct 18, 2006.

Do you scale out of positions?

  1. I always scale out

    113 vote(s)
    14.1%
  2. I scale out most of the time

    228 vote(s)
    28.5%
  3. Most of the time, I do not scale out

    189 vote(s)
    23.6%
  4. I never scale out

    270 vote(s)
    33.8%
  1. taowave

    taowave

    Do you run multi strategies or are you a single strategy trader?

    It certainly appears the latter,which would explain your "conviction"

    Is "expected return" the sole determinant of strategyselection,or does volatilty/drawdown factors play a role?
     
    #1511     Jan 9, 2015
  2. you dont understand a thing about probabilities then. All in and all out can be a viable approach at times when you have a high-probability setup and extremely strong conviction. However, statistically it can be shown that it is not inferior to still trade when you have a relatively strong conviction but markets are somewhat volatile by using a scale-in/scale-out strategy approach. If you cannot imagine or picture a scenario where this makes more sense then you lack probabilistic knowledge.

     
    #1512     Jan 10, 2015
  3. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    Anytime one has a strong enough conviction to initiate a trade, then they should enter with full position---otherwise the trade should not be entered into at all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
    #1513     Jan 10, 2015
  4. says who? You? And who are you?

    Your recommendation is contrary to everything professional bank and hedge fun traders do. And they do not only do that for reasons of reduced market impact they do it because it sometimes is the optimal approach to entering and exiting positions. You provided zero evidence statistically why entering and exiting ALWAYS is better. It simply is not.

     
    #1514     Jan 11, 2015
  5. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    It's interesting how people continually miss the point and offer discussions which are not germane to the subject at hand. The thing to remember is that different trade set ups and proper risk management may dictate 2 contracts on a trade, or 4 contracts or 12 etc etc etc. If the proper amount of contracts(shares) under your system is 4, then the entry of 4 should occur all at once, and the exit of 4 should occur all at once. If scaling in or out, then over the long haul, you will not reap full benefit. You will only reap the full benefit, or the least drawdown, by being all in and all out with full position on each trade. It doesn't matter though that I am handing out one of the keys to the kingdom---as very few, if any, will find merit in this proven tenet.
     
    #1515     Jan 11, 2015
  6. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    Example of the trader who is using a losing system:

    Four ES Contracts 90% win ratio all in/all out versus
    Four ES Contracts 90% win ratio scaling out at half target.

    1 pt target 10 pt initial stop loss

    1st example with 20 trades
    18 winners for 1 X (4 contracts) = 72 pts ($3600)
    2 losers for 10 X (4 contracts) = -80 pts (-$4000)
    Net loss $-400


    2nd example with 20 trades
    18 winners for 1 X(2 Contracts)=36 pts ($1800)
    18 winners for .5 X(2 Contracts)=18 pts ($900)
    2 Losers for 10 X(4 Contracts) =-80 pts (-$4000)
    Net loss $-1300

    As you can see, even the trader who employs a losing system will lose less by not scaling out. --Ishmael:)
     
    #1516     Jan 11, 2015
  7. you continue talking bullshit. So far you made the same statement over and over and have not once produced one single statistical backup why your claim might be standing on sound footing.

     
    #1517     Jan 12, 2015
  8. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

    Proof of the mathematical superiority of full position in, full position out has been showed irrefutably time and again. Most will attempt to make the discussion into something that it is not. Very simply, it doesn't matter what strategy is used, over the long haul, you will make more, or lose less, by not scaling in or out. It is absolutely mathematically correct.
     
    #1518     Jan 12, 2015
  9. Ok, please provide a link that details the mathematics behind your claims. We are all waiting.

     
    #1519     Jan 12, 2015
  10. So far nothing from our friend, I thought so...big mouth, no math nor probabilities skills.

     
    #1520     Jan 12, 2015