Santorum: Separation Of Church And State 'Makes Me Want To Throw Up'

you think? religion has always been used by the powerful to pander to the masses:

"Religion is regarded by the common man as true, the wise man as false, and the rulers as useful."

~Seneca the Younger 4 b.c.- 65 a.d

 

?????

Throwing out a few cut and paste quotes doesn't negate my earlier post. Sorry freethinker, it's convenient for the atheistic fringe to paint the founding fathers in an atheistic-deist manner but the very actions and writings by those men show the inaccuracy and folly of the attempt. A true deist wouldn't believe that God would care or act on behalf of man.

The Founding Fathers believed just the opposite.

 

Here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1274502/posts


(We receive numerous requests from across the country to answer various editorials and letters-to-the-editor. The subject is usually the religious persuasions of the Founding Fathers, and the standard assertion is that they were all deists. The following is but one of many possible replies to such accusations.)

I notice that your newspaper has an ongoing debate concerning the religious nature of the Founding Fathers. A recent letter claimed that most of the Founding Fathers were deists, and pointed to Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, Hamilton, and Madison as proof. After making this charge, the writer acknowledged the "voluminous writings" of the Founders, but it appears that she has not read those writings herself. However, this is no surprise since the U. S. Department of Education claims that only 5 percent of high schools graduates know how to examine primary source documentation.

Interestingly, the claims in this recent letter to the editor are characteristic of similar claims appearing in hundreds of letters to the editor across the nation. The standard assertion is that the Founders were deists. Deists? What is a deist? In dictionaries like Websters, Funk & Wagnalls, Century, and others, the terms "deist," "agnostic," and "atheist" appear as synonyms. Therefore, the range of a deist spans from those who believe there is no God, to those who believe in a distant, impersonal creator of the universe, to those who believe there is no way to know if God exists. Do the Founders fit any of these definitions?

None of the notable Founders fit this description. Thomas Paine, in his discourse on "The Study of God," forcefully asserts that it is "the error of schools" to teach sciences without "reference to the Being who is author of them: for all the principles of science are of Divine origin." He laments that "the evil that has resulted from the error of the schools in teaching [science without God] has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism." Paine not only believed in God, he believed in a reality beyond the visible world.

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the necessity of a public religion . . . and the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern." Consider also the fact that Franklin proposed a Biblical inscription for the Seal of the United States; that he chose a New Testament verse for the motto of the Philadelphia Hospital; that he was one of the chief voices behind the establishment of a paid chaplain in Congress; and that when in 1787 when Franklin helped found the college which bore his name, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning" built "on Christ, the Corner-Stone." Franklin certainly doesn't fit the definition of a deist.

Nor does George Washington. He was an open promoter of Christianity. For example, in his speech on May 12, 1779, he claimed that what children needed to learn "above all" was the "religion of Jesus Christ," and that to learn this would make them "greater and happier than they already are"; on May 2, 1778, he charged his soldiers at Valley Forge that "To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian"; and when he resigned his commission as commander-in-chief of the military on June 8, 1783, he reminded the nation that "without a humble imitation" of "the Divine Author of our blessed religion" we "can never hope to be a happy nation." Washington's own adopted daughter declared of Washington that you might as well question his patriotism as to question his Christianity.

Alexander Hamilton was certainly no deist. For example, Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great: (1) Christianity, and (2) a Constitution formed under Christianity. Only Hamilton's death two months later thwarted his plan of starting a missionary society to promote Christian government. And at the time he did face his death in his duel with Aaron Burr, Hamilton met and prayed with the Rev. Mason and Bishop Moore, wherein he reaffirmed to him his readiness to face God should he die, having declared to them "a lively faith in God's mercy through Christ, with a thankful remembrance of the death of Christ." At that time, he also partook of Holy Communion with Bishop Moore.

The reader, as do many others, claimed that Jefferson omitted all miraculous events of Jesus from his "Bible." Rarely do those who make this claim let Jefferson speak for himself. Jefferson own words explain that his intent for that book was not for it to be a "Bible," but rather for it to be a primer for the Indians on the teachings of Christ (which is why Jefferson titled that work, "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth"). What Jefferson did was to take the "red letter" portions of the New Testament and publish these teachings in order to introduce the Indians to Christian morality. And as President of the United States, Jefferson signed a treaty with the Kaskaskia tribe wherein he provided—at the government's expense—Christian missionaries to the Indians. In fact, Jefferson himself declared, "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." While many might question this claim, the fact remains that Jefferson called himself a Christian, not a deist.

James Madison trained for ministry with the Rev. Dr. John Witherspoon, and Madison's writings are replete with declarations of his faith in God and in Christ. In fact, for proof of this, one only need read his letter to Attorney General Bradford wherein Madison laments that public officials are not bold enough about their Christian faith in public and that public officials should be "fervent advocates in the cause of Christ." And while Madison did allude to a "wall of separation," contemporary writers frequently refuse to allow Madison to provide his own definition of that "wall." According to Madison, the purpose of that "wall" was only to prevent Congress from passing a national law to establish a national religion.

None of the Founders mentioned fit the definition of a deist. And as is typical with those who make this claim, they name only a handful of Founders and then generalize the rest. This in itself is a mistake, for there are over two hundred Founders (fifty-five at the Constitutional Convention, ninety who framed the First Amendment and the Bill of Rights, and fifty-six who signed the Declaration) and any generalization of the Founders as deists is completely inaccurate.

The reason that such critics never mention any other Founders is evident. For example, consider what must be explained away if the following signers of the Constitution were to be mentioned: Charles Pinckney and John Langdon—founders of the American Bible Society; James McHenry—founder of the Baltimore Bible Society; Rufus King—helped found a Bible society for Anglicans; Abraham Baldwin—a chaplain in the Revolution and considered the youngest theologian in America; Roger Sherman, William Samuel Johnson, John Dickinson, and Jacob Broom—also theological writers; James Wilson and William Patterson—placed on the Supreme Court by President George Washington, they had prayer over juries in the U. S. Supreme Court room; and the list could go on. And this does not even include the huge number of thoroughly evangelical Christians who signed the Declaration or who helped frame the Bill of Rights.

Any portrayal of any handful of Founders as deists is inaccurate. (If this group had really wanted some irreligious Founders, they should have chosen Henry Dearborne, Charles Lee, or Ethan Allen). Perhaps critics should spend more time reading the writings of the Founders to discover their religious beliefs for themselves rather than making such sweeping accusations which are so easily disproven.

Thank You,
David Barton/WallBuilders

 

Good job, Wallet.

I'm confused why it is apparently a good thing for the President to lecture Christians at the National Prayer Breakfast that it is their religious duty to pay higher taxes. And why it is an outrage for Santorum to suggest that faith has to have a role in public policy. Are faith-based positions acceptable only when they fit the liberal media/big government template?

 

its interesting,and amusing, to watch the thumpers work. here we have people professing things that would get them labeled heretics in most churches today. but because they were founding fathers the bible thumpers feel the need to revise history and call them devout christians.
on the other hand we have obama who has done nothing but profess the christian line and they label him a fake christian.
what we can tell from their writings is most rejected the idea that jesus was devine and they rejected christianity in government.

 

Santorum is less like Jesus than Obama is.

 

It will take a 'Miracle' to see Santorum on the ticket. That's for sure.



c

 

Well, your quote stated that GW used "Providence" instead of God.
I went over to his famous Farewell Address, searched for God: nothing.
Providence: one hit, as below, in line with what you posted re him:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/washing.asp

That's a primary source. Providence, not God.

The other guys: search the Constitution for the word God. No hits.
The Federalist? I searched a few at random, came up with one hit in number 43, as follows:

Similar to the reference in the Declaration of Independence. A very general formulation, no reference to Christ or Jesus, just as in the Declaration.
I see no evidence in any of these documents of any specific reference to a Christian God. As the Founders were emphatic about not showing partiality to any one religion officially, and were proud that this impartiality was a feature of the US Constitution, this is hardly a surprise.
Y'all can argue what religion they were forever and never come to a definite conclusion. The three big documents left to us by them, the Declaration, the Constitution, and the Federalist Papers, are devoid of any reference to Christianity.
As is George Washington's Farewell Address, which is probably in fourth place right behind those three.
Regardless of what they believed in private, the official position of the US Government was strictly impartial, and it was so by design, so much so that GW didn't mention God specifically once in his last address to the nation.

And really, Thomas Paine? Only a completely illiterate reading of history would dare mention him at all in this connection. We all know what he believed, since he wrote a big book about it: The Age of Reason.
Sheesh.

 

The religion of the founders / power holders of this nation is Masonry/Mystery School/Hermeticism. Look at the layout, architecture, and symbolism of Washington, DC - it's right there in the open.

 

I've read and watched all that symbolic engineering and the rest from the Masons. Very interesting, very possibly some truth to it all. My feeling is, yes, there were some smart people, and maybe they belonged to a club of sorts, hopefully without all the nefarious underpinings attached (sp?).


c