Hey Guys, Just wanted to introduce myself and see if I could get some advice/insight into my situation. I am considering accepting an offer to Citigroup's Sales and Trading Analyst Program in NYC. It seems to be a pretty prestigous program. However, I have an interview next week with Susquehanna International Group in PA. I'm trying decide what would be best starting out. I love SIG because of the Prop trading aspect. However, Citi has a great training program and you really can't beat a real Wall Street experience. I get the sense that most of this board were self-starters in the business and I would like to see their views.
hi I heard a lot of good thing about SIG and my best friend work there....I thing trading is really up to you...I also traded with First New York Securities...they are really good firm...but all of the famous trading firm has only training for less than a year and then it is up to you to make it or not....The more famous the firms is...the less payout you willl get...but you also has other advantages that prop firm does not have... Way to go...
Join Citigroup. If you ever choose to change careers, even if it's into another financial sector, most recruiters (or graduate school programs) would recognize Citigroup, but most probably wouldn't immediately recognize Susquehanna (even though they are big inside the industry). Susquehanna's reputation is good and well-respected with its training and performance, but unfortunately, their reputation doesn't really extend beyond the trading industry. But if you can delay your response to Citigroup, have an interview with SIG anyway. They'll probably ask you a lot of probability questions. But, like you said, you can't beat a real Wall Street experience. Even if you end up wanting to do something else, that will look better on your resume for your future career endeavors. What other offers/interviews do you have though?
Agreed - it's much easier to move into Prop from an analyst program at Citibank than it is to move the other way.
Deringer, Right now it's the recruiting season so I've been doing so many interviews. I'm a finance major at UVA so I've done I-Banking interviews with Lehman, UBS, CSFB, etc. I really didn't like I-Banking when I did it this summer, but I needed a 'saftey' job. Morgan Stanley and Bear Stearns Fixed Income and other Sales and Trading positions were what I really wanted to do. However, it's hard because UVA is not normally a target school for S/T positions, only I-Banking. I got lucky with Citigroup (it's funny because when I toured its trading floor, some guys still answered the phone, "Salomon Bros"). I have a final round with Bear and a few others, but I think I may cancel. From what I hear, you guys are right, you can definitely go anywhere after a program at Citi.
I like how you said ibanking is a "safety" job. Heh. BTW how is Virginia's finance program? Are you at McIntire or Darden? How is the recruiting presence and the work load?
Not really but it is a safer bet rather than SIG. If Susquehanna has a salary and you get the position, then it's just your choice of conservative vs aggressive. Sounds like you really impressed someone at Citi, great job. Yes they are not on the level of Morgan Stanley, GS, Merrill but that is because Citigroup is risk averse. When I interviewed with them for their 3 year management program, they took pride in the fact that they were not very active in the tech IPOs during the bubble. I was too aggressive in my goals and trading mentality so they did not like me which is good cause I found out later their management program was definitely not for me. I would not cancel the interviews with Bear and others, go to them and mention the fact that you were already offered a job at Citi. That will give you more bargaining power. The main thing you need to do is realize what you want to do. What I-banks do at their sales desks is not real trading, it's managing order flow. It's cake walk, when those guys jump behind the screen on their own, they go through a rude awakening. I busted my a$$ trying to get one of those jobs but in 2002, I had no chance with all the hiring freezes and going up against Ivys. Susquehanna is real trading and it's no joke, you really have to perform and show that you are made for that or you're out quick. So pick wisely.
i think it depends a lot on what you really want to do. if you want to consider being an analyst, go with C. if you want to get into trading, you should consider not cancelling your other interviews.
Salomon, I think you should think long-term. Susqehanna is a top class trading firm with excellent training, and you should have the opportunity to work with some of the brightest minds if you end up working there, but the disadvantage is that your career would immediately be reduced to a very specific area. You might end up being a trader for the rest of your life, or you may not. If you have no other opportunities lining up, I would suggest you to take that chance. But, let's say, somewhere down the line, you have a change of heart and wish to pursue grad school instead or perhaps enter other industries, then that Susquehanna experience wouldn't really serve you as well as a Citigroup analyst experience from Wall Street. The trading methodologies of the two said firms are pretty different though. It's true that Susquehanna is a real trading firm, and the Citigroup job is really more of an enhanced sales and analyst job, but since you're still young, you don't want to limit your future options so early. The Citigroup program should arm you with pretty high exposure to the market, give you a solid experience, provide you with room to learn and grow, but it should also offer you much wider opportunities later in life that aren't confined in only the trading arena. Also, just because Susquehanna provides a highly reputable training program, it does not guarantee that your performance will be impressive in the market. There's a high statisitcal chance that most don't really make it. I've actually met a few traders who used to work in Susquehanna, and they're very intelligent people, but when things didn't turn out as they had hoped, they were left with limited options because, on their resume, their qualifications and working experience just didn't seem to be appreciated as much by outsiders. But with a Wall Street analyst job, (unless you really f**k up big time), you wouldn't have to worry about that because the experience should offer you various roads to take and give you different opporunities to make a transition to other areas. Well, this is obviously a more conservative approach and not in line with your trading objective, but it is a "safety" path (which is something you obviously have indicated that you care about), so you should really think it through with how you want to design the possible map of your career. But I think you're in a great position already because you're fresh and you currently have choices. Best of luck.
I'm at McIntire, but I'm 26 y/o. I did a 5 year stint in the Marines, before going to college. The finance program is pretty good I think. However, I think McIntire is known for making some of the best 'all-around' business people, rather than just 'finance' folks like maybe Stern or Wharton. The recruiting presence is strong, especially this year. A lot more hedge funds and a few private equity firms are recruiting our undergrads this year. All the top IBanks have always recruited here. Here is a link to last years placement report: http://www.commerce.virginia.edu/career_services/Employers/Placement report/placement report.html