Salaries for direct access traders

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by BK145, Aug 2, 2001.

  1. BK145


    I was wondering what the avg. base Salary is for a prop. trader at a direct access trading firm (Hold Brothers). Do they even offer a base salary? what an entry level trader can expect to make in the first year (Base+earnings). And is it even worth becoming a prop trader when the company takes 47%of your earnings as a prop. trader?

    Any information salary wise would be much helpful.
    (Would like to know information for first round interview)

    Thanks all
  2. Hitman


    There are two type of firms, one that offers a base salary and very low payout or the more popular one, zero salary but very high payout.

    It is entirely possible to get a 85-95% payout at a prop. firm before you even turn profitable. Your own capital is NOT on the line.

    There is no average number in this business. You can make nothing or you can make 1/4 million first year. Most people take six months to go profitable, if you have savings and believe in yourself, then by all means go for the zero salary high payout firms, if you are living from check to check then go for salary but very low payout, then after you learn the game switch to the former.

    Do not EXPECT, you are a beggar when you enter this business, you have nothing to EXPECT, your sole purpose is to survive, talk about EXPECT after your first year . . .
  3. Turok


    >Do not EXPECT, you are a beggar when you
    >enter this business, you have nothing to
    >EXPECT, your sole purpose is to survive,
    >talk about EXPECT after your first year . . .


  4. shadaj


    Hey Hitman, I was wondering, your answer to BK 145'S question, Base salary. Can you give us a number?
  5. All the base salaries I have seen have been around 2000 a month, give or take a bit. But I am on the west coast, it might be more back east.
  6. BK145


    Okay, how about this,
    If it's all relative, What can a GOOD Prop. Trader make compared to an AVERAGE and a BAD Prop. trader in a year. I'm speaking in terms of direct access trading(Hold Brothers, Bright Trading.....) give me some numbers please.
    I know it also depends on the type of contract(Base or High Payout). But numbers on these type of salaries are important. Im trying to decide which route to go.
  7. Hitman


    A BAD Prop. Trader can make ZERO if he doesn't have a base salary. If he does, then it is probably (give or take) 25K a year.

    An AVERAGE Prop. Trader, someone like myself, can expect somewhere 50-100K (this is only doable if you don't have a base salary but a high pay out).

    An GOOD Prop. Trader, and I don't use the word GOOD lightly, can make 100K and beyond, first year. There is a woman next to me who is up at least 1/4 million, she is on her first year without previous trading experience, EXCEPTIONAL.

    None of the above numbers mean ANYTHING, you will do as well as you can do, it won't have anything to do with any statistical figures.

    After you go through your first year, if you are still profitable, then it is time to EXPECT, until then, focus on survival, forget the numbers. At least half of the traders who ever walked into my firm will walk out after they blew a year or so's worth of time for NOTHING, my firm will NEVER fire anyone who show up to play every day, they just quit because trading is not for them.

    Which half of the fence will I be on? I honestly don't know yet. You don't know either, until you do it . . .

    If you are asking this kind of questions at all, go for a prop. firm that requires no money on the line, if you blow up at least it won't be your own money, and you will have as good a chance as anyone starting out in this business to make it, just remember, it is still a 50/50 at best, and this is regardless of your work ethic (there are people who work as hard as anyone in any business but they simply can not make any money).
  8. AFter all the firms going belly-up or sideways, it would seem that some salary would be a good consolation....
  9. liltrdr


    Hitman, you talk about people failing even when doing hard work. What do you think they are doing wrong? Is it just luck (which I doubt)? I'm guessing there is a certain kind of "hard work" that leads to success and a certain kind that doesn't. But I don't know what the right kind of hard work is...
  10. To a point.

    This is akin to sports. Some work really hard and end up making some money at the game they love but more than likely end up doing something else related to it. For example, say you want to become a tennis player. You have no money to travel etc. you scrounge around for sponsors and/or teach here and there get up enough money to go for short stints on the circuit. If you are lucky you'll have money backing you. Now, you work really hard; practice, eat right, do the road work etc. Does that mean you'll make it to the big time? Not necessarily. Most end up teaching the sport. But they don't do any less than the top guys. They're just not cut out for it. Is it talent? Not always. Most of the good players with above average athleticism don't make it either. The difference is in the psyche of the individual. Boris Becker was never the greatest talent. There were much better tennis players coming through the ranks with him. But what he lacked in pure talent he made up with guts and belief in himself. He rarely choked to a point where he couldn't make the proper shots under pressure.

    This prop trading thing is similar. It needs the right combination of flair for the game, dedication and the ability to keep battling and belief in your own abilities. There is no proper mix though. It varies for each individual. It all boils down to being able to make the proper decision despite you emotions. Whether you arive at that point through proper analysis or a belief in a "system" or just gut instinct doesn't really matter- that's the individual nature of the game. The only way to find out if you can come up with the proper mix is to give it a go.

    But there does seem to be common denominator amongst the successful traders and that's pure dedication. Almost to a point of obcession. It is the necessary rites of passage. Whether they admit it or not it's really a voyage of self discovery. And with it is borne the ability/instinct to go for the kill when when the opportunity permits and admit defeat and retreat quickly when it's proper thing to do.

    At least that's the way it seems to me.
    #10     Nov 25, 2001